Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,854
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Heavy Buffers... technical questions

    What happens if your buffer is too heavy? Is there any detriment to this? What could happen?

    H1 is 3.8oz
    H2 is 4.6oz
    H3 is 5.4oz

    (approximately)

    All other things considered if your buffer is too light I know what can happen, but if it's too heavy? What would my symptoms be?

    I am running an H2 now with an XP spring. I see a buffer though that has a slightly heavier weight (4.9oz) and I am not sure if that little .3 oz would make a half a difference or not. I am guessing not so much.

    But just in theory if I had too heavy of a buffer what would the gun act like?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,882
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Too heavy and it won’t fully cycle. A full cycle means it will lock back on an empty mag.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,854
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    With my current set up I have an adjustable block that I can't recall which click it's on but it's no where near full gas and with a H2 and XP spring it locks back without a problem. I tuned it to lock back suppressed and unsuppressed with a variety of ammo. I personally don't think a .3 oz difference would make any difference considering I have tons of leeway on the front end of the gun to get more gas if needed.

    To be honest I don't even know the exact buffer weight I have now. It's H2 but none of them are standard as far as I can tell.

    I don't know if that .3 oz extra weight will make any difference at all when it comes to reliability considering that it runs like a top. That 4.9 oz is like half way between H2 and H3 weights so before I bought one though I figured I should ask.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    2,070
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    you might want to try running a standard buffer and spring and tuning w/ AGB. Changing buffer weights is part of how you tune a system w/o and AGB. No real point in having the extra precipitating mass if not needed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,854
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    you might want to try running a standard buffer and spring and tuning w/ AGB. Changing buffer weights is part of how you tune a system w/o and AGB. No real point in having the extra precipitating mass if not needed.
    When I build my 10.5 I was getting waaay too much carrier speed regardless of what I did with my GB. I think it was called 'bolt over base' which would mangle my brass and cause all kinds of feeding issues. Jerry R let me try a few things to test so I didn't have to throw lots of $$$ at a maybe and the H2 was my magic mojo. I tried it with an extra power spring AND the H2 and it was nice.

    I've ran that setup with all kinds of 5.56 and 300BLK without ANY problem so I figured I would try to copy it. The only potential difference is the buffer that I am looking at is probably slightly heavier than a standard H2. I haven't bought a buffer (or spring) yet but that's why I am asking the question. LOL

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    2,888
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    That’s what I’ve got with my .224 Valkyrie. I have it set on the first click that’ll cycle and lock the bolt but the carrier speed is still too fast and it was slinging brass like crazy, tearing it up and throwing it really far. Dropping to an H from a carbine buffer was the ticket to smoothing it out

    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    When I build my 10.5 I was getting waaay too much carrier speed regardless of what I did with my GB. I think it was called 'bolt over base' which would mangle my brass and cause all kinds of feeding issues. Jerry R let me try a few things to test so I didn't have to throw lots of $$$ at a maybe and the H2 was my magic mojo. I tried it with an extra power spring AND the H2 and it was nice.

    I've ran that setup with all kinds of 5.56 and 300BLK without ANY problem so I figured I would try to copy it. The only potential difference is the buffer that I am looking at is probably slightly heavier than a standard H2. I haven't bought a buffer (or spring) yet but that's why I am asking the question. LOL

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,854
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    That’s what I’ve got with my .224 Valkyrie. I have it set on the first click that’ll cycle and lock the bolt but the carrier speed is still too fast and it was slinging brass like crazy, tearing it up and throwing it really far. Dropping to an H from a carbine buffer was the ticket to smoothing it out
    Exactly!

    The real question here is at what point do you (not 'you' but we) over do it? I am trying to do a three bears thing here...not too hot, not too cold... but just right...at least that's the goal... I know what happens when carrier speed is too fast but if it's too slow on the far end the bolt won't lock back...but let's say I am just this side of the no bolt hold open side, is there a wide band of 'if it works it works' or is there signs of over doing it?

    I don't know the exact weight of my current buffer but it is an H2, but I am wondering basically how much wiggle room I have to play with here. At the end of the day it's going to come down to experimentation so it might be a $40 or $50 experiment. That's not anything to worry about cost wise but if someone knows the answer why not ask eh?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,854
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    ^^^ On that note I see buffers of weights all over the place.... so I am shopping but also learning at the same time. I am looking for in context of what is 'ideal' and what symptoms to look for...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    2,643
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Exactly!

    The real question here is at what point do you (not 'you' but we) over do it? I am trying to do a three bears thing here...not too hot, not too cold... but just right...at least that's the goal... I know what happens when carrier speed is too fast but if it's too slow on the far end the bolt won't lock back...but let's say I am just this side of the no bolt hold open side, is there a wide band of 'if it works it works' or is there signs of over doing it?

    I don't know the exact weight of my current buffer but it is an H2, but I am wondering basically how much wiggle room I have to play with here. At the end of the day it's going to come down to experimentation so it might be a $40 or $50 experiment. That's not anything to worry about cost wise but if someone knows the answer why not ask eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    ^^^ On that note I see buffers of weights all over the place.... so I am shopping but also learning at the same time. I am looking for in context of what is 'ideal' and what symptoms to look for...
    First of all, when all else fails, go back to the TDP. I believe it has the actual buffer weights that the system was designed for.

    Next step, do some research on which barrel manufacturer has properly gassed gas ports for the specific configuration you're looking for. Yes, some of it will be anecdotal, but there's lots of good info you can find via the Googs.

    And to Aragon's point...if you have an already functioning system, don't screw with it. You're good. Don't over-think it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    2,070
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    And to Aragon's point...if you have an already functioning system, don't screw with it. You're good. Don't over-think it.
    For some of us, screwing with it is half the fun. And this is Weapon Evolution, after all.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    2,643
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    For some of us, screwing with it is half the fun. And this is Weapon Evolution, after all.
    Fair enough. #merica

    Quote Originally Posted by alamo
    My question originally is kind of simple---but the answers might not be I guess. Basically put "if my buffer is too heavy what's gonna happen?" [read: if it's going to be a pain in the ass I don't want to mess with all that bullshit]
    You keep asking the same question and keep getting the same answer. If you put a buffer in that's "too" heavy, then the rifle won't function correctly. Period. Also, as Former11B pointed out, you can get an increase in recoil impulse. If this happens, start going back down.

    I know the lower will need a heavier buffer. This is a known quantity. But I go to order a plain vanilla heavier H2 buffer and a search on single site turns up no plain vanilla, just a 4oz, 4.3oz, 4.5oz, and 4.9oz and said marketing material leads to this thread.
    I mentioned going to the TDP to check the weights, but I meant to say go to the maintenance manual (easily downloaded here) and have a look. However, now that I'm home from work and took a look, I couldn't find the weights stated in there (after a quick glance). But I'd go find what Colt says their buffers weigh, since they held the TDP. Bottom line: carbine buffers can be various weights. Hx buffers should be "standard." Here's some info to start with: http://www.rifleshootermag.com/edito...on-ar15s/83752

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,854
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    Unless your gun is really over gassed or you're shooting suppressed, I think this obsession the last few years with buffers is gotten out of control.
    99% suppressed all the time on this one with the option for unsuppressed, but very unlikely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    You said it. Of course it's gonna drive Alamo's OCD batshit, so grab some more Orville Redenbacker's.
    It's almost like you know me!

    Quote Originally Posted by mustangfreek View Post
    But there’s also been so many advancements it makes ya wonder what does work, maybe better?


    Lmao.....I agree.....sorry Alamo......
    It's ok. We all gotta laugh even if it's at ourselves. You did touch on an important part...new whizbang parts that are supposed to be special... do they really work? This does make me wonder sometimes. Just put in a search for H2 buffer and you get a dozen varieties all in different weights.

    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    And to Aragon's point...if you have an already functioning system, don't screw with it. You're good. Don't over-think it.
    Understood.

    My point is this... my current SBR won't be touched. It's staying like it is and I won't have to swap uppers anymore. Having an upper with no lower makes me feel kind of naked. It has to grow into a full rifle hence this whole build and putting together a new lower. It would be pretty easy to find a standard weight H2 buffer (or so I thought) and get the same spring I have and call it good.

    That said as I hunted around for buffers in the H2 range they have a shit ton that are not at all 'standard' weight or whatever.

    My question originally is kind of simple---but the answers might not be I guess. Basically put "if my buffer is too heavy what's gonna happen?" [read: if it's going to be a pain in the ass I don't want to mess with all that bullshit]

    I know the lower will need a heavier buffer. This is a known quantity. But I go to order a plain vanilla heavier H2 buffer and a search on single site turns up no plain vanilla, just a 4oz, 4.3oz, 4.5oz, and 4.9oz and said marketing material leads to this thread.

    If I under do it I know what will happen. Bolt over base, carrier speed too fast, constant stoppages, mangled brass, etc. If I over do it though and put something too heavy what are those symptoms? No LRBHO, maybe short stroking? Anything? Can basically an extra half oz cause things to be too slow? Is that even a thing?
    Last edited by alamo5000; 19 March 2019 at 00:08.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    820
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I like a little wiggle room so I can run all types of ammo suppressed and unsuppressed so I tend to keep my bolts running faster with lighter buffers...that way I know I can run Tula in a pinch, but also run full power ammo suppressed. That is a wide operating margin so my bolt runs faster and harder than most. If you want "ideal" an adjustable gas block is the key. I don't like adjustable gas blocks though...one more part to fail. Problem with running bolts faster and harder is that parts wear quicker. But..."ideal" would be the bolt running just fast enough to lock back on an empty round. The solution to this beyond having gas ports custom drilled is to have all buffer weights in your spare parts box, and get heavier and heavier until it doesn't lock back on the last round. When you find the weight that doesn't lock back, go 1 lighter.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    15,286
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Unless your gun is really over gassed or you're shooting suppressed, I think this obsession the last few years with buffers is gotten out of control.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    On the bank of the Mighty Muskingum
    Posts
    4,029
    Downloads
    6
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    Unless your gun is really over gassed or you're shooting suppressed, I think this obsession the last few years with buffers is gotten out of control.
    You said it. Of course it's gonna drive Alamo's OCD batshit, so grab some more Orville Redenbacker's.
    There's no "Team" in F**K YOU!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •