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17 March 2019, 23:59 #1
Heavy Buffers... technical questions
What happens if your buffer is too heavy? Is there any detriment to this? What could happen?
H1 is 3.8oz
H2 is 4.6oz
H3 is 5.4oz
(approximately)
All other things considered if your buffer is too light I know what can happen, but if it's too heavy? What would my symptoms be?
I am running an H2 now with an XP spring. I see a buffer though that has a slightly heavier weight (4.9oz) and I am not sure if that little .3 oz would make a half a difference or not. I am guessing not so much.
But just in theory if I had too heavy of a buffer what would the gun act like?
Thanks!
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18 March 2019, 00:23 #2
Too heavy and it won’t fully cycle. A full cycle means it will lock back on an empty mag.
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18 March 2019, 01:07 #3
With my current set up I have an adjustable block that I can't recall which click it's on but it's no where near full gas and with a H2 and XP spring it locks back without a problem. I tuned it to lock back suppressed and unsuppressed with a variety of ammo. I personally don't think a .3 oz difference would make any difference considering I have tons of leeway on the front end of the gun to get more gas if needed.
To be honest I don't even know the exact buffer weight I have now. It's H2 but none of them are standard as far as I can tell.
I don't know if that .3 oz extra weight will make any difference at all when it comes to reliability considering that it runs like a top. That 4.9 oz is like half way between H2 and H3 weights so before I bought one though I figured I should ask.
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18 March 2019, 06:47 #4
you might want to try running a standard buffer and spring and tuning w/ AGB. Changing buffer weights is part of how you tune a system w/o and AGB. No real point in having the extra precipitating mass if not needed.
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18 March 2019, 08:59 #5
When I build my 10.5 I was getting waaay too much carrier speed regardless of what I did with my GB. I think it was called 'bolt over base' which would mangle my brass and cause all kinds of feeding issues. Jerry R let me try a few things to test so I didn't have to throw lots of $$$ at a maybe and the H2 was my magic mojo. I tried it with an extra power spring AND the H2 and it was nice.
I've ran that setup with all kinds of 5.56 and 300BLK without ANY problem so I figured I would try to copy it. The only potential difference is the buffer that I am looking at is probably slightly heavier than a standard H2. I haven't bought a buffer (or spring) yet but that's why I am asking the question. LOL
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18 March 2019, 09:55 #6
That’s what I’ve got with my .224 Valkyrie. I have it set on the first click that’ll cycle and lock the bolt but the carrier speed is still too fast and it was slinging brass like crazy, tearing it up and throwing it really far. Dropping to an H from a carbine buffer was the ticket to smoothing it out
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18 March 2019, 11:05 #7
Exactly!
The real question here is at what point do you (not 'you' but we) over do it? I am trying to do a three bears thing here...not too hot, not too cold... but just right...at least that's the goal... I know what happens when carrier speed is too fast but if it's too slow on the far end the bolt won't lock back...but let's say I am just this side of the no bolt hold open side, is there a wide band of 'if it works it works' or is there signs of over doing it?
I don't know the exact weight of my current buffer but it is an H2, but I am wondering basically how much wiggle room I have to play with here. At the end of the day it's going to come down to experimentation so it might be a $40 or $50 experiment. That's not anything to worry about cost wise but if someone knows the answer why not ask eh?
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18 March 2019, 12:04 #8
^^^ On that note I see buffers of weights all over the place.... so I am shopping but also learning at the same time. I am looking for in context of what is 'ideal' and what symptoms to look for...
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18 March 2019, 19:02 #9
First of all, when all else fails, go back to the TDP. I believe it has the actual buffer weights that the system was designed for.
Next step, do some research on which barrel manufacturer has properly gassed gas ports for the specific configuration you're looking for. Yes, some of it will be anecdotal, but there's lots of good info you can find via the Googs.
And to Aragon's point...if you have an already functioning system, don't screw with it. You're good. Don't over-think it.
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18 March 2019, 20:25 #10
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19 March 2019, 06:41 #11
Fair enough. #merica
Originally Posted by alamo
I know the lower will need a heavier buffer. This is a known quantity. But I go to order a plain vanilla heavier H2 buffer and a search on single site turns up no plain vanilla, just a 4oz, 4.3oz, 4.5oz, and 4.9oz and said marketing material leads to this thread.
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18 March 2019, 23:52 #12
99% suppressed all the time on this one with the option for unsuppressed, but very unlikely.
It's almost like you know me!
It's ok. We all gotta laugh even if it's at ourselves. You did touch on an important part...new whizbang parts that are supposed to be special... do they really work? This does make me wonder sometimes. Just put in a search for H2 buffer and you get a dozen varieties all in different weights.
Understood.
My point is this... my current SBR won't be touched. It's staying like it is and I won't have to swap uppers anymore. Having an upper with no lower makes me feel kind of naked. It has to grow into a full rifle hence this whole build and putting together a new lower. It would be pretty easy to find a standard weight H2 buffer (or so I thought) and get the same spring I have and call it good.
That said as I hunted around for buffers in the H2 range they have a shit ton that are not at all 'standard' weight or whatever.
My question originally is kind of simple---but the answers might not be I guess. Basically put "if my buffer is too heavy what's gonna happen?" [read: if it's going to be a pain in the ass I don't want to mess with all that bullshit]
I know the lower will need a heavier buffer. This is a known quantity. But I go to order a plain vanilla heavier H2 buffer and a search on single site turns up no plain vanilla, just a 4oz, 4.3oz, 4.5oz, and 4.9oz and said marketing material leads to this thread.
If I under do it I know what will happen. Bolt over base, carrier speed too fast, constant stoppages, mangled brass, etc. If I over do it though and put something too heavy what are those symptoms? No LRBHO, maybe short stroking? Anything? Can basically an extra half oz cause things to be too slow? Is that even a thing?Last edited by alamo5000; 19 March 2019 at 00:08.
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18 March 2019, 13:14 #13Senior Member
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I like a little wiggle room so I can run all types of ammo suppressed and unsuppressed so I tend to keep my bolts running faster with lighter buffers...that way I know I can run Tula in a pinch, but also run full power ammo suppressed. That is a wide operating margin so my bolt runs faster and harder than most. If you want "ideal" an adjustable gas block is the key. I don't like adjustable gas blocks though...one more part to fail. Problem with running bolts faster and harder is that parts wear quicker. But..."ideal" would be the bolt running just fast enough to lock back on an empty round. The solution to this beyond having gas ports custom drilled is to have all buffer weights in your spare parts box, and get heavier and heavier until it doesn't lock back on the last round. When you find the weight that doesn't lock back, go 1 lighter.
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18 March 2019, 14:48 #14
Unless your gun is really over gassed or you're shooting suppressed, I think this obsession the last few years with buffers is gotten out of control.
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18 March 2019, 14:53 #15