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Thread: First 308 build

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    Get the Seekins (fixed it) adj gas block. It's cheap, relative to others and it works. Save the money you'd spend on that gamble because 9 out of ten, you'll need it.
    This. I messed around and messed around before I just bit the bullet and got an adjustable gas block.
    Last edited by Pyzik; 27 March 2019 at 05:14.
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  2. #17
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    Gas blocks = failure prone band aids for improperly set up buffer systems. Even worse on large pattern AR’s for slowly clogging and causing malfunctions.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    Gas blocks = failure prone band aids for improperly set up buffer systems. Even worse on large pattern AR’s for slowly clogging and causing malfunctions.
    I'm sure you have more experience than I do, and maybe I'll come around to your point of view eventually, but for large frame AR's I think it's best to just go ahead and start off with an AGB. There is more variability across manufacturers, more reciprocating mass, and more variability in ammo (across milsurp 7.62x51 to commercial .308 Win). Suppressor use also really affects things. Not always required, but dropping $100 on an SLR Sentry is a good way to let you tune your system.

  4. #19
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    Piggy-backing on this thread...

    I'm trying to "reset" a configuration and I'm not 100% sure what I have vs. need. Is there an Vltor A5 Guide for Dummies somewhere? I think either BoilerUp or Former11B broke it down recently, but I can't seem to find it again.

  5. #20
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    As far as what works or?

    Std ar15 tube = shorty 308 buffet and 308 spring

    Ar10/A5 length = std ar15 buffer and 308 spring such as the ArmaLite one.

    Thereís more to it then that, Iím lookimg hard at that Arnaspec SRS setup- itís a 2 stage sorta captured unit with 5.6 oz. buffer weight vs the std shorty at 3.8 Ďish oz.
    Last edited by mustangfreek; 26 March 2019 at 14:34.

  6. #21
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    Tuning the proper gas flow itself is the way to go rather than throwing heavier and heavier buffers at the problem. Ideal would be a properly sized gas port but in the age of multiple setups/configurations between ammo, suppressors etc. Its not as easy as changing a buffer but itís addressing the problem at the source. And they will no more clog up than a regular gas port/block if theyíre designed properly

    Tossing a heavy buffer into an overgassed rifle is a mask for the symptom and does nothing to take care of the real problem at hand

    I would say there are some occasions where I wouldnít change the block out, like a Factory built rifle I want to leave as-is. In that case, a Gemtech carrier or something might be appropriate, but I would swap the buffer in this case

  7. #22
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    ^^ This OR...

    How about premium barrel makers stop making barrels that cater to people who want to run the cheapest, shittiest, garbage ammo they can get on armslist? I know I'm going out on a limb, but I'm willing to say that if people spend money for a decent barrel, they'll be willing to spend to feed it well.

    How about if you make a barrel, supply a gas block that you guarantee will work with your dimensions.

    Why does it have to be the way it currently is? If somebody wants to fiddlefuck with their gun, fine, but if you want $500 or more for a barrel, make it work out of the box without having to fuck with it.

    Make a gas block that works like a piston set-up with settings for U-S-O.... Why hasn't the switchblock caught on, other than it costs too damn much?
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    Piggy-backing on this thread...

    I'm trying to "reset" a configuration and I'm not 100% sure what I have vs. need. Is there an Vltor A5 Guide for Dummies somewhere? I think either BoilerUp or Former11B broke it down recently, but I can't seem to find it again.
    http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...ht=#post165543

  9. #24
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    That was it. Thank you. I'm actually trying to reduce buffer weight, not add to it. For clarification...

    The VLTOR A5 buffer tube is simply an Armalite AR-10 carbine sized receiver extension with a specially designed buffer for the AR-15. If you use an Armalite carbine receiver extension (i.e., an A5), on a large frame build, you need to use a standard AR-15 carbine buffer and the Armalite buffer spring (https://www.rainierarms.com/armalite...buffer-spring/). If you use the A5 buffer, you likely won't cycle properly, and if you use the DPMS 308 carbine buffer (the short one), the bolt will slam into the lower receiver and cause damage. If you ever seen damage to the threads on the lower where the buffer tube threads in, you've got a mismatched buffer setup. Guess how I know that.
    I didn't realize you could run a carbine buffer in an A5/AR-10 spring. That greatly simplifies my problems and means I may not have to buy anything. But I thought the point of the Vltor system was that it worked in harmony with the A5 buffer system? It mentions it's compatible on their site, even for .308.

    Like I said, I'm happy to not have to buy anything else, just confused.

  10. #25
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    If you want a large frame AR to run correctly, a rifle length buffer system and rifle length gas system. End of discussion. A5’s are not much better than a carbine system and carbine systems flat out suck on a .308.

    And ALL gas blocks can and will clog and cause the system to slowly lose the correct gas charge. Much more quickly on a .308 rifle. Less than 300 rounds on my one 6.5 and it was failing to eject. The heat had also seized the adjustment screw on the gas block rendering the entire rifle inoperable. $100 poorly designed band aids.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    I didn't realize you could run a carbine buffer in an A5/AR-10 spring. That greatly simplifies my problems and means I may not have to buy anything. But I thought the point of the Vltor system was that it worked in harmony with the A5 buffer system? It mentions it's compatible on their site, even for .308.
    Like I said, I'm happy to not have to buy anything else, just confused.
    What buffer are you running now with the A5 setup?

    I hear most people using a A5 tube , are using a H3 buffer along with the 308 ArmaLite spring ..

    Iím hearing what sinner is saying also..

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangfreek View Post
    What buffer are you running now with the A5 setup?

    I hear most people using a A5 tube , are using a H3 buffer along with the 308 ArmaLite spring ..

    I’m hearing what sinner is saying also..
    What's installed wasn't a bandaid, it was a triage compression bandage for a previous barrel. But what I will be switching out is a Slash .308 XH Carbine buffer (8.5 oz). It's way too heavy for...well...anything with the new barrel. I'll throw some AR-15 buffers at it after my next work hitch to see what works.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    I didn't realize you could run a carbine buffer in an A5/AR-10 spring. That greatly simplifies my problems and means I may not have to buy anything. But I thought the point of the Vltor system was that it worked in harmony with the A5 buffer system? It mentions it's compatible on their site, even for .308.

    Like I said, I'm happy to not have to buy anything else, just confused.
    The A5 buffer tube is simply the Armalite AR10 carbine buffer tube. Then they lengthened the buffer (for the AR-15). I think what VLTOR is trying to tell you is that you can use the A5 tube on an AR-15 with the A5 buffer, or you can use it as an AR-10 carbine buffer tube - because they're the same thing (but NOT with the A5 buffer).

    So, to be clear, if you use the A5 tube on an AR-15, you need the AR5 buffer. If you use it on a 308, you use the AR-15 buffer. Which is why everyone gets confused when you start talking about buffer systems on the 308.

    In summary, you have 3 choices for the buffer system on the large frame:

    Rifle - tube/buffer/spring are same on AR10 and SR25
    Armalite Carbine - longer buffer tube (= Vltor A5) with AR15 carbine buffer, Armalite Carbine Spring
    SR25 Carbine - AR-15 tube with DPMS 308 buffer (shorter than AR15 carbine buffer), AR15 carbine spring

    Personally, I have two Large frames builds:
    M5 with DPMS/AR-15 carbine buffer tube, JP 308 SCS, JP LMOS BCG, Sentry 7 AGB
    Xanthos with 2A buffer tube which is AR-10 carbine length, JP AR-15 SCS with small plug, Sntry 7 AGB, JP LMOS BCG

    Both run fine after tuning the gas with the Sentry AGBs so I didn't have to futz with the buffer weight. I'm loathe to add weight to a buffer because less reciprocating mass = less felt recoil = easier to keep eyes on target and trace. I'm also loath to add strong springs because of the noticeable impact on charging and cyclic rate. Fix the gas first. Neither of the above rifles are built as duty guns, but I'd probably just get a MARS-H/MWS and call it done if that's what I needed.

  14. #29
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    Got it! Thank you. It's much clearer now.

  15. #30
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    Just buy a Colt! (R)
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