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Thread: NFA Handbook (from ATF.GOV)
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15 February 2010, 05:00 #16
Without knowing the specifics of your situation, it sounds as if you might be getting the cart a bit ahead of the horse. Do you have another lower on hand that is already registered as an SBR? If not, taking delivery of the NFA-length upper is risky business from a legal perspective.
We've discussed these matters before, of course, but if your intent is to SBR the lower that NRW is sending you, then a prudent man might ask them to hold on to the upper until you are able to complete the Form 1 process. Better yet, we tend not to advertise this fact, but NRW is generally willing to register the lower as an SBR for you, provided they have built it up to a relatively advanced state of completion (i.e. 80%+) when it is reentered in their books.
This will require you to have the lower (and as a practical matter, the upper) sent to a SOT/Class III Dealer, rather than to you directly, but since you will be transferring a factory SBR, there will be no attendant engraving or Form 1 requirements later on. Once the transfer application clears BATF, you go to the dealer and take the rig home. Period.
Again, to be clear, there is some added expense in going this route, because NRW must complete the lower (more or less) in order to put it on the NFA registry as an SBR item; that said, this is something you're going to have to do anyway, and in the end, it is much less complex to have it done by the manufacturer. This will also have the side benefit of eliminating your paperwork woes, since the dealer will effectively handle those questions (and most of the process) on your behalf.
ACStand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.
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15 February 2010, 09:47 #17Member
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Thanks Chief, I do have an SBR lower already. (failed to mention) Since NRW is giving away a stripped lower already I was trying to go that route as previously mentioned. My main question is who does my check go to? And do I need to engrave anything? I was confused on the whole Department of and the department of the...thing.
thanks again.
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17 April 2010, 18:18 #18
Chief,
So if a Class III dealer has a complete SBR from a manufacturer such as LWRC, that unit is already registered and engraved - correct? In that case, all I need to do is fill out the paper-work, pay the fee, pay for the firearm, and wait for a positive response?
BTW - this is a very informative thread, thanks.NRA Benefactor Member
NRA Certified Instructor
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on."
John Wayne - "The Shootist"
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18 April 2010, 01:42 #19
Jerry,
You're entirely correct. A factory SBR is placed on the NFA registry by the original manufacturer, and as the company's information is already present on the receiver, there are no additional engraving requirements. My own preference for factory SBRs is based on the fact that they somewhat simpler to register, they eliminate the headaches associated with having personal information permanently etched into the weapon, and (theoretically at least) they retain a higher resale value. I've gone the factory route with Noveske in the past with very good results, and will likely do so again in the near future.
ACStand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.
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18 April 2010, 17:35 #20Member
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I believe I know the answer to this but want to be clear before buying a barrel.
I have a stripped (virgin) Mega lower (purchased as such) that I plan on making an SBR. I did the trust route and am sending out the Form 1 and having the lower engraved with my info while I wait. I will probably get the receiver back before my tax stamp and I want to test the weapon while I wait. Im under the assumption I can put a pistol buffer tube on the lower and use it in a pistol configuration until my paperwork comes back, which I will then attach a stock.
Is my thinking correct?
Thanks
Kyle
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19 April 2010, 01:46 #21
An AR pistol must be deliberately manufactured and registered as such, and while it it would seem to defy a certain logic, the actual configuration of the weapon is of secondary importance. In this case, I have to presume that the Mega lower is, in the eyes of the law, a standard rifle/carbine receiver, subject to all of the usual barrel and overall length requirements. Although we know "in good faith" that the receiver will soon reenter the books as a Short-Barreled Rifle, at the moment it is neither a pistol, nor an SBR.
We've done our fair share of hair-splitting in this thread, and this situation would seem to be an almost absurd application of the finer points of NFA law. Are you really likely to encounter a problem while your carbine is in this transitional state? A reasonable man would have to say no. Even so, the fact that it might look like -- and be configured exactly like -- an AR pistol does not make it a pistol, and from the BATF perspective, you will have created (however temporarily) an unlawful SBR. The fact that it is a largely useless one without a stock is a technicality that is of little interest to the government.
Were this to ever become an issue, I suppose that you could try to argue that you had actually created an unregistered pistol, vice an unregistered SBR, but is that really a distinction worth making? More to the point, would it likely gain any traction with the courts? Given that a tenuous "maybe" is about as good an answer as we could possibly hope for, I have to would strongly recommend against rolling the dice with a premature range test.
Remember: operator intent and (in this case) weapon configuration carry zero weight under NFA law. Either you have met the requirements, or you haven't. Naturally, all of this used to feel like a much higher-stakes game when we were registering and manufacturing machineguns/conversions, but in legal terms, your soon-to-be-SBR is no different. Do it right, wait for the paperwork to clear, and enjoy your new blaster!
ACStand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.
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19 April 2010, 09:22 #22Member
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Thanks Chief I will do just that.
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13 March 2011, 12:20 #23
In section 6.3 Submission of form 1, the handbook says "Payment of the making tax is to be in the form of a check or money order payable to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives". But on the form 1 it states "Submit with your application a check or money order for $200 mad payable to The Department of the Justice".
-Which is correct?
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14 March 2011, 10:13 #24
I just submitted mine and my Class 3 dealer made it very clear that the check was made payable to "Bureau of Alchol, Tabacco, Firearms, and Explosives" There is to be NO abbreviations.