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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    I will say I don't care particularly for some of Cowan's preferences, particularly his argument about rear sight placement, which to me smacks of catering to the LCD.
    To me it's merely a reference point, or rather a point of interest. I have zero experience shooting RDS pistols. Cowan has hundreds if not thousands of hours behind them.

    Does that mean his preferences are right (for me)...no. But it does give me something to consider. If I go the other direction at least I will be in good company (with John Lovell).

    Some things it might not be OK to question the facts, but in this case it definitely seems like a lot of opinion or preference.

  2. #17
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    Another thing that people always say is that "tint doesn't matter", particularly in reference to the RMRs, with argument that you're being target focused, so you're just superimposing the dot over the target image, so the view through the RDS doesn't matter. I would argue that is absolutely false, that the tint can have an impact on your shooting performance for many people. Now, IME, it only manifests itself in certain conditions, mainly in low-light against small targets, particularly if there is low contrast between the target and the background and/or your lenses are all scratched up; the problem is that the superimposing of the image confuses the brain due to the discrepancy between the images; in something like an OEG, the dot is against a plain black slate, so it's easy to disentangle the plain black against the target, but when it's two similar images not quite lining up, it can definitely slow you down, as you try to reconcile exactly what your dot is aiming at. Is this a major issue, enough for me to not recommend the RMR? Not at all (I would still be on the RMR if I weren't on the ACROs), but it is a nuance to be aware of in a defensive application.

  3. #18
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    I want a holosun or deltpoint to try out. I like the idea of the bigger window..Never shot any rds handguns and Kinda bored with irons and want to try out one on the one slide I got for a rmr footprint rds.

  4. #19
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    Follow up question...for those running red dots how important is it to have back up irons or to be able to cowitness your irons with the optic?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Follow up question...for those running red dots how important is it to have back up irons or to be able to cowitness your irons with the optic?
    I believe it is absolutely paramount to have useable irons on any gun you plan to use for duty or self-defense. Co-witness, on the other hand, is overrated; I would actually see absolute co-witness as a negative, as it would obstruct much of the RDS, while one-third would be something of a nice compromise.

  6. #21
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    I bought an optic for my 365XL finally but I wanted to go over it here a bit more about "why". Who knows. It might help some random person out there in the future some day.

    Price wasn't a deciding factor for me at all. I am a firm believer in buying quality even if it's a few bucks more.

    Originally I was intent on getting the RMRCC but today I stopped by a store and was able to handle a few optics with various dot sizes. In about 10 minutes I went from having one notion in my head to wiping that notion out fairly quickly.

    Although I didn't compare exact models I got a good enough feel for what I was getting.

    I decided on the Holosun 507k X2.

    Why? For one it actually fits the footprint of my slide cut and will sit lower than an optic raised on a plate. It also has some very rudimentary rear notches on the optic itself that will allow some form of Co witness. It might not be much but it's certainly better than zero.

    The 32 MOA ring I thought I would hate it. Turns out that is one of the best things about it. Boy was I wrong (and reserve the right to be wrong in the future as well). Compared to a 3 MOA dot it was night and day easier on the eyes to pick up. 32 MOA at 100 yards is 32 inches. At 50 it's 16 inches. At 25 it's 8 inches. And at 12 yards it's 4 inches.

    I don't know about other people but 95% of your average shooters won't hold a 4 inch group at 12 yards with a pistol.

    What's more is you have 3 reticle options. In the center of the circle there is a 2 MOA dot for fine tuning. You have the option of any of the three. Circle with the dot, circle with no dot, and dot only. For a learner options are good.

    Also for tired eyes bigger did seem to be better. Tired eyes are about half of the reason why I am going with a dot anyway.

    The illumination seemed very strong as in daylight bright which is also a big deal.

    You also don't have to remove the optic to replace the battery. This is a big deal. I can carry a spare battery in my car or whatever so no big deal. Plus the cowitness with irons is still available at least somewhat. Probably not perfect but better than zero.

    Overall I also think the construction was quite good. I was admittedly thinking it might be made of chineseium grade pot metal but what I handled would easily handle what I typically do during the day. Definitely not duty work unless you count typing as "duty".

    Taking the time to put hands on some dots was really eye opening though. I'm glad I did and now I am more confident in my purchase.

  7. #22
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    Got my dot today. I think I made the right choice. I got it installed and zeroed. I don't really know what distance to zero at so I got it fairly on point at 25 yards. Then I moved up to the 10 yard line and was able to be very precise with it. I also like that I still have some form of back up irons if ever needed. Any other tips or advice would be welcome.

    I plan to get some anti fog and put it on the glass but aside from that it's just a matter of practicing more.

  8. #23
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    I zero mine at 25y. It's close enough at 50y on a B/C target that I'm not really thinking about it and is pretty much POA/POI all the way in to something stupidly close. Height over bore doesn't really seem to be an issue like an AR, although I'm shooting it on a Glock, which is going to put the optic closer to the barrel.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    I zero mine at 25y. It's close enough at 50y on a B/C target that I'm not really thinking about it and is pretty much POA/POI all the way in to something stupidly close. Height over bore doesn't really seem to be an issue like an AR, although I'm shooting it on a Glock, which is going to put the optic closer to the barrel.
    At 25 yards I was getting hits all over the place so it was hard to tell if it was shooter error or something else. My gun is the 365xl so not exactly a long range shooter. After I got that 25 yard zero about as good as I could get it I moved in just to practice with it and to shoot with it more. I also shot a mag of my actual carry ammo to make sure that it wasn't wildly off.

    Put it this way... I was aiming at that little 1/2 inch square used to to hang the plate up with and I put 5 rounds right on top of it. I was able to be a lot more accurate when I took my time. Who knows, maybe it was just luck. But so far I am glad I made my choice.

  10. #25
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    I will go back out on another day and get back at the 25 yard line and try to make some hits and see what I get. I was kind of in a hurry today because I wanted to get a zero and play with it while I had the time on a day off. Now that I it's mounted up and I have a fair zero the next time I can go work on techniques or whatever.

  11. #26
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    A friend installed a Holosun 509T on his competition Glock. There was more distortion in the lens than I was expecting
    However, zeroing it at 30yards made a plate rack a breeze. Could put rounds whenever I wanted on the plates, left, right, or center. Also we were shooting a 50% IPSC at 100yds no problem

    I need to get a 17 MOS or something and look into an Micro red dot of some type for it. The list goes on

  12. #27
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    I'm looking at the ZEV Omen slide for my 19 (If it's ever in stock anywhere). Any reason to buy the stock MOS over it?
    There's no "Team" in F**K YOU!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    I'm looking at the ZEV Omen slide for my 19 (If it's ever in stock anywhere). Any reason to buy the stock MOS over it?
    Yeah all I've seen are G17 Omens. Good looking slide!

  14. #29
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    What gen ? I see the gen 5 g19 omen slides available

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    A friend installed a Holosun 509T on his competition Glock. There was more distortion in the lens than I was expecting
    However, zeroing it at 30yards made a plate rack a breeze. Could put rounds whenever I wanted on the plates, left, right, or center. Also we were shooting a 50% IPSC at 100yds no problem

    I need to get a 17 MOS or something and look into an Micro red dot of some type for it. The list goes on
    The shiny new car smell hasn't even worn off mine yet. I am definitely still digging it. In a month or two I will have a more informed opinion but so far I can be substantially more accurate with mine.

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