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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    If you don't like the dot, I get it. But if you ever shoot at a competition (friendly or otherwise) with a dueling tree or Texas star, a dot makes it much more of an inconvenience than a painful trial.
    Oh, I see the potential, and am willing to put in the time and expense to at least make it an option. My biggest problem is that with my mom becoming a resident of my home, I've had almost no time to put into developing the skill it takes to be proficient, hence it's still a novel item for me. I finally made it out to the range Sunday, and I had so many guns that needed shot "Just because" that I didn't get to spend quality time working on the dot. I need to do some fine-tuning to center the dot in my sight picture and make it line up with my irons. Everything on this upper is new, so I need to go irons first, then line up the dot to properly co-witness to the signts (If I have that wrong, please advise). This is the first pistol upper I've assembled, the first dot, etc.. so just having a running, happy gun was a win in my book, nevermind the horror stories about ZP slides (After my purchase, BTW). Thankfully, I had none of that, and in the end I was able to shoot a lot and lower my BP.

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    I need to go irons first, then line up the dot to properly co-witness to the signts (If I have that wrong, please advise).
    Yeah, don't do that.

    Treat the dot as it's own thing. Don't slave it to the irons.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Yeah, don't do that.

    Treat the dot as it's own thing. Don't slave it to the irons.
    I may have misread, but I took it to mean for when he's starting to zero the dot. I do this if I'm starting from scratch on a pistol red dot. For a Glock, I'll put the dot just above the front site as a place to start and then adjust based on impact until the dot is zeroed independently of the irons.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    I may have misread, but I took it to mean for when he's starting to zero the dot. I do this if I'm starting from scratch on a pistol red dot. For a Glock, I'll put the dot just above the front site as a place to start and then adjust based on impact until the dot is zeroed independently of the irons.
    It sounded like (to me) that he wanted to just slave the dot to the irons and call it zeroed. He will let us know what he meant

    For me trying to shoot a dot with my 'irons mentality' still ingrained was the most frustrating part of learning. Like I said above, it took me at least 1000 rounds to break my habits. One thing I did that really helped me was to put a small dot on the target, like those little dot stickers you get at the office supply store. With NO time limit at all I tried to see how accurate I could be.

    That has nothing at all to do with zeroing the dot, but using it like that helped a ton. After I did that 'drill' a few hundred times I then started concentrating primarily on my presentation. One shot, holster. One shot holster. Slow but correct.

  5. #20
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    What I meant to say was....

    A buddy of mine has a lead sled setup I can use to root the pistol, then I intend to fine tune the iron sights as close to perfect as possible, then move the dot to just resting on top of the front sight.

    That, or I can boresight the dot separately. That might actually cut out a little bit of fiddling, however small.

    Which would you guys do? Starting to feel like I'm overthinking this!
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    What I meant to say was....

    A buddy of mine has a lead sled setup I can use to root the pistol, then I intend to fine tune the iron sights as close to perfect as possible, then move the dot to just resting on top of the front sight.

    That, or I can boresight the dot separately. That might actually cut out a little bit of fiddling, however small.

    Which would you guys do? Starting to feel like I'm overthinking this!
    I'm an expert in over thinking.

    Don't try to use irons as a reference point other than maybe getting it on paper.

    Once you get to that point basically pretend that you don't have irons at all. What I did is use a shooting bag or something to steady the gun. With the dot aim for a small point like an inch big or something like that and slowly fire a controlled shot. Figure out how many clicks up/down left/right and adjust from there.

    Basically in my limited experience trying to slave the dot to the irons or even trying to use it as a reference point beyond the basic stuff complicates things. Those two sighting systems are on different planes so other than just a "rough idea", that in my opinion is about as far as you should go with that.

    That said I'm here learning just like everyone else, albeit maybe a little bit more.

  7. #22
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    I'll admit, I was operating on the belief that suppressor height sights allow the dot to absolute co-witness to the sights. That said, I also understand that there is probably no standard for iron sight height over bore. Hell, the set I put on this ZP upper is a supposed matched set and it shoots low consistently! They're AmeriGlo, which I thought was Glock OEM and a decent option, but perhaps I need to stick with Trijicons..
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    I'll admit, I was operating on the belief that suppressor height sights allow the dot to absolute co-witness to the sights. That said, I also understand that there is probably no standard for iron sight height over bore. Hell, the set I put on this ZP upper is a supposed matched set and it shoots low consistently! They're AmeriGlo, which I thought was Glock OEM and a decent option, but perhaps I need to stick with Trijicons..
    For Glock, I recommend the 10-8 Performance "Optic Height" sights. Have them on a 19 MOS and are perfect zero.

  9. #24
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    I'll give 'em a try, thanks.
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  10. #25
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    FWIW, my suppressor Ameriglos and OEM sights co-witness with my dots (RMR and Holosun).

  11. #26
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    I've used pretty much 90% Night Fision sights because I've gotten them in the past for a deal and loaded up.... lately, I've preferred non-suppressor height sights though. I like the cleaner window

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    FWIW, my suppressor Ameriglos and OEM sights co-witness with my dots (RMR and Holosun).
    I haven't ruled myself out yet. That one hasn't been shot until that trip. That's really ground my gears, being "That guy" that has guns he never shoots. Between work and being the primary caregiver for me ole mum, time purely for myself is a rare commodity these days, so people can say what they will.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    I've used pretty much 90% Night Fision sights because I've gotten them in the past for a deal and loaded up.... lately, I've preferred non-suppressor height sights though. I like the cleaner window
    At that point, are they still functional, or purely aesthetic? My suppressor height sights sit fairly low in the optic's window as it is. Design flaw, perhaps? I'm sure there's people that trust the RMR and SRO enough to run them without BUIS, but I have yet to see a pistol set up that way. Of course, an all or none approach can certainly help get one over the dot learning curve!
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    I haven't ruled myself out yet. That one hasn't been shot until that trip. That's really ground my gears, being "That guy" that has guns he never shoots. Between work and being the primary caregiver for me ole mum, time purely for myself is a rare commodity these days, so people can say what they will.
    You made me second-guess myself, so I just went and double-checked. On my G17 with Ameriglo suppressor sights, my 508T does co-witness, but it is NOT an absolute co-witness. It's about a 1/3 co-witness. I guess I never paid attention after I zero because the dot is the primary. I will use the irons to find the dot if I'm in an unconventional position and the dot has disappeared, but the non-absoluteness isn't enough to matter in that case and the dot (or circle dot) comes back into view and I can refine aim off of that.

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