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Thread: Son of A &#!@

  1. #1
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    Son of A &#!@

    I just bought a bunch of .45 ACP mags, and scouted the forum for info about MEC GAR mags. Well I got a bunch of them at a great discount from a guy going out of business. The things look like, and feel like quality stuff. But Daaaaaamnnnn! The springs are so stiff, that I couldn't get more than four rounds in them (single stack 8 + 1), before giving up.

    I usually use CMC or Wilson Combat mags, and have never encountered anything like this before. I've had a tough time getting the last one or two rounds in, using CMC or WC mags, but I've actually cut my thumb, and got blisters on my index finger tips trying to load these.

    I finally found some .45 ACP loaders, where you can push the follower down all of the way and just drop the rounds in. Don't know if they work or not, when they get here, we'll see.

    But my biggest question is, is this NORMAL? Never have encountered this before, even given my years of shooting the 1911.

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    Pull the spring out and cut half a coil off with some diagonal cutters. Put it back together and see how it loads. If its still to stiff do it again until you get it where you like it. Once you got one spring done you now have the length of what they need to be for all the rest. Just cut a little at a time, you can always cut off more but cant go back. I just had to do this with some take down pin springs, took three attempts but they are butter smooth... its nothing new, sounds like you just never had this issue. You may want to keep them a little stiff as over time you know they loosen up even more...
    Last edited by Stone; 21 November 2021 at 20:32.
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    You might also want to keep them a little on the stiff side after fixing so you dont have feeding issues. Study the spring for a few minutes and find out if its better to cut the top of it that goes under the follower or the bottom end. Im guessing its better to trim the bottom.... I would also compare the spring to a WC and CMC spring to see if its to long or too strong. Just another mental reference point before you start trimming... Piece of cake brother!! Not all springs are created equal, I have watched guys change buffer weights all over the place because of gassing issues only to find out that $5 bottom of the barrel buffer spring was out of spec. There is a reason people use quality springs like the geissele buffer spring, Wolff springs, WC springs, JP springs etc,etc....
    Last edited by Stone; 21 November 2021 at 20:33.
    The best way to survive a violent encounter is to be the one inflicting the most violence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    You might also want to keep them a little on the stiff side after fixing so you dont have feeding issues. Study the spring for a few minutes and find out if its better to cut the top of it that goes under the follower or the bottom end. Im guessing its better to trim the bottom.... I would also compare the spring to a WC and CMC spring to see if its to long or too strong. Just another mental reference point before you start trimming... Piece of cake brother!! Not all springs are created equal, I have watched guys change buffer weights all over the place because of gassing issues only to find out that $5 bottom of the barrel buffer spring was out of spec. There is a reason people use quality springs like the geissele buffer spring, Wolff springs, WC springs, JP springs etc,etc....
    Gotcha bro! I think when the "loader" thing comes in, I'm going to see if I let a few mags sit, if it affects tension. I've never had any problem like this, for any magazine, no matter what cal. Again, crap, I've never had springs be this stiff. Thanks for the input.
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    I had some mags that were extremely stiff before. Could not load a full mag by hand (when they were new).

    They were so stiff that I damaged the brass casings when trying to load the mags.

    I got a loader that got a lot more leverage and I loaded up all the mags. Even then I could not get them all the way full. I just let them sit loaded for a few days then finally added the last few rounds.

    Now those mags load a lot easier.

    Before I made a permanent alteration I would exhaust all other options first.

    They will loosen up but it just takes time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FortTom View Post
    Gotcha bro! I think when the "loader" thing comes in, I'm going to see if I let a few mags sit, if it affects tension. I've never had any problem like this, for any magazine, no matter what cal. Again, crap, I've never had springs be this stiff. Thanks for the input.
    No problem. Dont forget that mags just sitting loaded wont really weaken the spring, its the actual loading and unloading like when at the range that will cause them to settle down. So get out there today and bust out 10K rounds!!! Hehehe...
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    This is such a classic FT post.

    Ahhh, good to see you posting regularly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    No problem. Dont forget that mags just sitting loaded wont really weaken the spring, its the actual loading and unloading like when at the range that will cause them to settle down. So get out there today and bust out 10K rounds!!! Hehehe...
    This isn't really correct. Springs can certainly take a set when left loaded in real life; the idea that springs only wear out with use is true only for ideal springs, which are some theoretical perfect springs. There are also springs that have the ability to be compressed all the way without taking a set, but that is very much something that needs to be designed for. While the cycling of the spring is typically what will cause it to weaken, setting achieved via compression alone is certainly something to be aware of, though I would be shocked if MecGar didn't account for that. My Wolff magazine springs will certainly take a set when left loaded.

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    I figured he wanted to actually shoot the pistol and use those mags in the near term, not load them up and wait extended periods of time for them to compress. Thats why I also said to leave them a little stiff after clipping the coils so if and when he loads them and stores them they will settle down a little but the actual use of them is where the breaking in occurs. My understanding is the repeated compression and decompression from actual use is what causes the atoms to rub against eachother which creates friction which translates into wear/softening and fatigue of the metal which will happen alot faster than just loading them and waiting for it to happen.

    "I would be shocked if MecGar didn't account for that" Looks like MecGear didnt account for much of anything based on the fact that he can barely get 4 rounds in an 8 round magazine... Maybe QC was on vacation that week.
    Last edited by Stone; 22 November 2021 at 14:35.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    I figured he wanted to actually shoot the pistol and use those mags in the near term, not load them up and wait extended periods of time for them to compress. Thats why I also said to leave them a little stiff after clipping the coils so if and when he loads them and stores them they will settle down a little but the actual use of them is where the breaking in occurs. My understanding is the repeated compression and decompression from actual use is what causes the atoms to rub against eachother which creates friction which translates into wear/softening and fatigue of the metal which will happen alot faster than just loading them and waiting for it to happen.

    "I would be shocked if MecGar didn't account for that" Looks like MecGear didnt account for much of anything based on the fact that he can barely get 4 rounds in an 8 round magazine... Maybe QC was on vacation that week.
    Spring set, spring creep, and spring fatigue are closely related, but set is also generally a design factor. It typically does not take an extended period of time for set to occur and then plateau, and is in fact a relatively typical thing for many springs that companies will actually specifically design for. For this same reason, I would also caution against clipping the springs, unless MecGar advises it is fine, as they likely engineered it to be a specific length, coil, power, etc., with specific wear and set characteristics. Spring creep is when the spring continues to weaken under compression, and is generally undesirable, and means that the spring is being pushed beyond its performance limits, whether it be due to overcompression, compression while in environments it wasn't designed to tolerate (typically too high a temperature), etc.

    MecGar may very well have known the issues with loading, and wrote it off as simply being cheaper to manufacture a spring that would have a significant set, but still operate fine after the initial set is done, rather than going through the trouble of pre-setting the spring. Or it could be a QA/QC issue, I don't know, but it doesn't sound unreasonable for it to have been an engineering decision (which is a separate judgement as to whether or not it is a good practice).
    Last edited by Default.mp3; 22 November 2021 at 14:52.

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    Have discussion with the manufacturer before any alterations.
    https://mec-gar.com/contact-us/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Have discussion with the manufacturer before any alterations.
    https://mec-gar.com/contact-us/
    Good idea. Should have thought about that before even posting! Probably send them a note after Thanks Giving Holiday. I'm hoping that loading tool works when it gets here. Will load them all at the range and run a bunch of rounds through them to see if that helps. Need some practice anyway, have hardly done anything firearm related for almost a year due to COVID restrictions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortTom View Post
    Good idea. Should have thought about that before even posting! Probably send them a note after Thanks Giving Holiday. I'm hoping that loading tool works when it gets here. Will load them all at the range and run a bunch of rounds through them to see if that helps. Need some practice anyway, have hardly done anything firearm related for almost a year due to COVID restrictions.
    I have a feeling the loader will solve your problem. I know it's not .45, but I had a heck of a time getting 9mm into my Sig Mec-Gar 10-round mags once you get to the last 1 or 2 rounds. The standard capacity mags were much easier. And FWIW, I have a hard time with Glock 9mm mags after the first 5 or 6 rounds...it just gets to be more hassle than it's worth without the loader. But with a Maglua, I can load them super-easy and not have a sore thumb. First World problems, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    I have a feeling the loader will solve your problem. I know it's not .45, but I had a heck of a time getting 9mm into my Sig Mec-Gar 10-round mags once you get to the last 1 or 2 rounds. The standard capacity mags were much easier. And FWIW, I have a hard time with Glock 9mm mags after the first 5 or 6 rounds...it just gets to be more hassle than it's worth without the loader. But with a Maglua, I can load them super-easy and not have a sore thumb. First World problems, of course.
    I'm hoping it's that easy, and after emptying a few rounds down range, everything will sort of take care of itself. More of my wishful thinking, anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    I have a feeling the loader will solve your problem. I know it's not .45, but I had a heck of a time getting 9mm into my Sig Mec-Gar 10-round mags once you get to the last 1 or 2 rounds. The standard capacity mags were much easier. And FWIW, I have a hard time with Glock 9mm mags after the first 5 or 6 rounds...it just gets to be more hassle than it's worth without the loader. But with a Maglua, I can load them super-easy and not have a sore thumb. First World problems, of course.
    Brownells came today. UpLula is my newest, best friend.
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