Nightforce? Leupold? Aimpoint?

[WileyCoyote]

I just bought a LWRC M6A3 and can not figure out which type and brand of optic to go with. I have spoke with many people and of course they all recommend different optics or scopes.

I am leaning towards the Nightforce 1x4x24 scope with larue tactical mount. However I like the Aimpoint T-1 and the Comp M4s. I also am an oldschool type of guy and really like Leupold scopes but personally I dont think the turrets are as good as the ones on the Nightforce.

Your opinions and recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[m24shooter]

Have you seen the fighting carbine optics article? Can't remember where it is but give me a minute to find it.

Here you go:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/fight...for-the-ar-15/

A lot will depend on what you want to do with your carbine and how you foresee using it. Up close, the 1x will do everything you need. The Aimpoints are great in that arena, and the question would be if you want the size of the Comp or the small, lightweight Micro. You can add a magnifier down the road if you think you need it, and it will work with both models.
The NF is a great optic as well, and will give you the variable power in the same package. You will have a larger optic, but will have the ability to have a CQB capability at 1x and more definition at 4x at farther ranges.

[Keebsley]

Have you seen the fighting carbine optics article? Can't remember where it is but give me a minute to find it.

Here you go:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/fight...for-the-ar-15/

A lot will depend on what you want to do with your carbine and how you foresee using it. Up close, the 1x will do everything you need. The Aimpoints are great in that arena, and the question would be if you want the size of the Comp or the small, lightweight Micro. You can add a magnifier down the road if you think you need it, and it will work with both models.
The NF is a great optic as well, and will give you the variable power in the same package. You will have a larger optic, but will have the ability to have a CQB capability at 1x and more definition at 4x at farther ranges.

I'll echo what m24shooter has said. It all depends on what you want to accomplish with your rifle. I took a carbine class yesterday and got to use various optics ranging from regular iron sights, to an Aimpoint, EOTech, and a NF. Each has their plusses and minuses. If I had it my way, I would go the route of the Aimpoint just for size and space savings. But for what I want out of my rifle, which is an SBR, it makes sense. I would have no issues and would love to have the NF 1x4 for a rifle that would be used for perimeter work but would also be used for more up close and personal aspects. It all depends on what you wish to accomplish.

[Titleist]

For my SR-15 I'm having this same debate, with a NF 1-4x NXS. My only issue is that if I do 85-90% of my shooting up close, like 50yds but want to have that ability to go to longer ranges, how good the NF is at those closer ranges?

How bad is scope shadow when shooting 1x, etc? Those are the only things holding me back form that purchase.

[m24shooter]

Titleist:
Here is the "shadow" of a folded down MBUS at 4x and 1x.

[WileyCoyote]

Is that the view through a NF 1x4x24 NXS?

[WileyCoyote]

Thank you for sending me that article. It was very informative and helpful. If I had the funds I would buy the Aimpoint T-1 and the Nightforce 2.5-10x32 NXS. The company I bought my rifle from the sales guy turned me to the Nightforces but he is like me an old school scope type of guy but he said that NF 1-4x24 is the "cats meow" of CQ scopes with long range capabilities.

[Titleist]

Titleist:
Here is the "shadow" of a folded down MBUS at 4x and 1x.

Thanks m24. I guess my question really relates to how fast you can acquire targets with it. Obviously that's a loaded and complicated statement. I'm used to the T-1 since with both eyes open I can be on target extremely fast. And when switching shoulders around barricades it's really quite easy.

Obviously with an optical system like the NXS you're dealing with a different style of scope, so that if your eyes aren't dead set behind the scope do you get that "toilet paper tube" like effect?

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I just mean to say that black ring effect that happens when you move off axis from the scope a bit. With the T-1s you're not going to encounter it really, but I'm wondering how much it comes in to play on the short dots like the S&B or NXS.

Also I'm working under ZERO experience trying any short dots out, so I'm pulling these concerns out of my ass here. But would love to know before I start setting the cash aside for one.

[m24shooter]

Is that the view through a NF 1x4x24 NXS?

Negative. It is a Burris XTR 14 1-4x24 with 30mm body. It will give you an idea of what looking through a 1-4x variable will look like though.

Thanks m24. I guess my question really relates to how fast you can acquire targets with it. Obviously that's a loaded and complicated statement. I'm used to the T-1 since with both eyes open I can be on target extremely fast. And when switching shoulders around barricades it's really quite easy.

Obviously with an optical system like the NXS you're dealing with a different style of scope, so that if your eyes aren't dead set behind the scope do you get that "toilet paper tube" like effect?

Yes. Because of the longer tube, even the true 1x variables will require more head to optic alignment than a true RDS 1x optic. If you have the scope mounted correctly and you can index your head by muscle memory/stock positioning (like NTCH) it will be fairly quick. Shooting off-shoulder will be a little slower. Getting something that is a true 1x will help a lot.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I just mean to say that black ring effect that happens when you move off axis from the scope a bit. With the T-1s you're not going to encounter it really, but I'm wondering how much it comes in to play on the short dots like the S&B or NXS.

Also I'm working under ZERO experience trying any short dots out, so I'm pulling these concerns out of my ass here. But would love to know before I start setting the cash aside for one.

You've got some valid concerns. I would say to try one first and see if you like it. The extended eye relief mounts help a lot at positioning the scope correctly. I'm used to shooting ACOGs, and I mount my optics (the magnified ones) where when I bring the weapon up I'm already indexed. This carries over to my 1x optics as well since I mount those for an absolute cowit whenever possible. For that reason, it isn't much of an issue for me. If you don't shoot like that, the "toilet paper tube" effect may be a problem.

[Titleist]

Thanks so much. I think before I take the plunge I should try to get behind one of these and see how it feels first. Till then I'll rock my T-1.

That helps a lot, thanks for the explanation.

[m24shooter]

Glad to help.
On my middy project I'm trying to figure if I want to go Recce/SPR light (the Burris XTR or an ACOG) or a straight middy carbine (a T1).
I really like the feel of the carbine. But if it is stupid accurate I may go the heavier way of the magnified optic.

[Titleist]

I can't say that my SR-15 is all that accurate, it's a durable and light rifle, but it's not too much of a tack driver.

But I totally understand your debate.

[Army Chief]

For SBR applications, the T-1 is admittedly hard to beat, but I like the idea of a magnified/variable optic on standard length carbines (i.e. 14.5-16"). Which one is right for you depends largely upon your usage model, but my shopping list looks something like this:

1. S&B Short Dot II - This is purely a windfall purchase. I own other S&B glass, and there is no doubt in my mind that the Short Dot remains a best-in-class offering, but I have a hard time justifying a $2,500 investment when funds are finite. On the other hand, if I only had one AR, it would get a Short Dot.

2. NF 1-4 NXS - Nightforce has a great reputation "in the community," and were it not for the fact that the daylight illumination of the FC-1 is a bit sketchy, this might very well put the S&B on level ground. Either way, this is premium glass as a reasonable price point, with the features you want and an innovative reticle that is worth a second look. I will very likely go this route on my next non-NFA AR.

3. Trijicon ACOG/Compact ACOG - This is pretty much where my shopping lists ends, though admittedly, there are so many options in the ACOG line that it is difficult to know where to start. The compacts seem to hold my interest, and what brief experience I've had with them has persuaded me that I should probably start there. I have a dedicated CQB carbine for training and such, but for just about everything else, I can see where an ACOG might be a solid 99% solution. No, it isn't a variable, but there is a good argument to be made for a quality fixed-power optic, and I tend to think that we tend to over-play CQB applications, anyway. Relatively few of us -- even those of us in uniform -- will routinely be involved in room clearing and arms-length engagements with a carbine. If we know that such a fight is coming, odds are there will be a dedicated team (with select fire weapons) involved; if we don't know that it is coming, then we're far more likely to find ourselves responding with a handgun.

Whatever the case, as a member of the over-40 crowd, I'm taking a renewed interest in magnified optics for reasons other than just target discrimination, and any (or all) of these strike me as superior choices for a general purpose carbine.

AC

[Paulo_Santos]

If most of your shooting is under 50 Yards, I'd get a Red Dot Sight. If you decide that you want magnification, you can always add the 3xMagnifier, which will give you a solid 0-300 yard system.

The 1x4 scopes are nice, but not as fast as a red dot. The 1x4 scopes are better for 25-400 yards.

[Army Chief]

Concur in principle, though it should be noted that a 3x magnifier is a rather poor substitute for a true variable (or fixed power optic) if that is what you're looking for, simply because of the reduced field of view. This is not a show stopper by any means, but it is something to keep in mind.

AC