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  1. #1
    chiz45 Guest

    Reliability overkill?

    Lately on arfcom, there has been a heavy push towards reliabiliy upgrades, like Crane O rings, D-fenders, heavy tension extractor springs, shrouded fire pins, etc. What is the mil-spec requirement for these springs, and are these things exceeding that tension standard? I haven't heard of any problems using these various 'upgrades' (i've used a D-fender, O-ring, green Specialized Armament extractor springs--but NOT all in the same gun!), but was curious if you guys have seen/heard of any problems.

  2. #2
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    Good question, and in my mind, there is a difference between making solid upgrades, and simply changing out parts to make oneself feel good. A good extractor spring and insert are a solid investment, but to start adding on everything you can without knowing why can become a problem.

    In general, I have guys take a long hard look at what they currently have, and figure out how it runs. Then, start looking at what to fix. If there aren't any problems, the money may be better spent on ammo, training, and range time. I know that training doesn't sound cool to some people, and it might not look as cool as new gear hanging off a weapon, but until people figure out their limitations, as well as the limitations of their own weapon, they are simply wasting time.

    The largest problem I've seen is people changing out things without knowing why.

  3. #3
    306FTW Guest
    I agree. A lot of ppl put so called reliability features on their rifles/tools/weapons w/out really knowing what they do or sure if they need them.

    I wait til a problem occurs before I go tampering with something. Take the Glock for example. People will put steel guide rods, extended releases, lighten the triggers, etc. However...mine works just fine as is and I just have a feeling that if I tampered with it it may never be the same or Murphy will find me at the worst possible time.

    On my Colt carbine I was having some extraction issues. Wasn't sure if it was the extractor or something else. I finally narrowed it down to being my extractor spring. I replaced the spring and added an O ring for extra assurance. It ran like a top after that and never had a problem again.

  4. #4
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    I think some preventative maintenance measures are Ok. My thing is people who tell you only LMT and Colt AR's will run. Sure, there are bottom feeders companies like model1sales that Id avoid, but I wouldn't blink twice about a Stag upper with a Bravo or LMT bolt carrier group swapped in.

  5. #5
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    dialM4murder,

    There is no doubt that the smart shooter will PM his/ her weapon, especially if its a weapon they stake their life on.

    I've seen guys change out parts on duty weapons for no other reason than it looked cool, or they heard about it some place. I think thats the sort of problem that is enhanced by some of the internet rumors regarding weapons, components and enhancements.

    Smart PM is mandatory IMO.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    Smart PM is mandatory IMO.
    Good call. I prefer to swap out parts prior to failure when possible. There really is no downside (short of money) to installing new springs (extractor, ejector, fire control, action spring, mag springs, etc) gas rings, extractors, ejectors, and such...as long as quality parts are used. Most of these parts are actually inexpensive.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    I know that training doesn't sound cool to some people, and it might not look as cool as new gear hanging off a weapon, but until people figure out their limitations, as well as the limitations of their own weapon, they are simply wasting time.
    I tried to explain that in a thread on home defense rifles over at ARFCOM. I was told I was shortchanging myself because I didn’t have an Aimpoint on my HD carbine.

    I tried to explain that my HD carbine was built on simplicity and reliability and that I personally was more comfortable with a weapon utilizing iron sights verses a rifle with red dot optics.

    When things really do go “bump in the night” at 0’dark 30 and I’m awoke from a sound sleep, I want as simple of a weapon as possible. Irons and a good light is all I need.

  8. #8
    5.56 Five0 Guest
    I am a big Aimpoint fan boy but the AR that I have ready to go for HD is my 10.5" SBR with Surefire M900 and carry handle. No Aimpoint on it. My primary duty rifle has an Aimpoint and flip sights but the one for HD is the KISS rifle. Both ride with me at work though.

  9. #9
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    Im a civilian, but I do have an Aimpoint on my HD/SHTF AR. Personal preference really. All the doo-dads mean nothing without proper training and know-how. As for "the other site", I wont mention my thoughts as not to violate this sites anti slander policies. Its pretty cool to have LEO/Military input here on this forum.

  10. #10
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    Alright, This is my go to gun in the pic. The gun is an LMT with no mods done to the inside. I've added a CTR stock, LMT rear BUIS, EOTECH 551, DD 7.0 lite rail, Tango down VFG, MIAD grip, surefire 6P with Tacstar barrel mount and pressure switch, A DD rail sling mount and a Viking tactics sling. I didn't add any of these parts for the cool factor. I simply wanted to build the most reliable AR I could within my budget.

    I've shot about 5000 trouble free rounds through it and I am real comfortable with this setup but I'd like to hear what items on my gun you guys would remove or change and what you would add if anything. Would my setup be considered overkill? I'm always willing to try something new. Thanks


    Semper Fi

  11. #11
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    USMC, your set up is very sweet. I don't think it needs any changes. The only concern I would have is the coil cord. I would take a couple pieces of zip tie and get it tight with the DD rail.

  12. #12
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    I will zip tie it to the rail as soon as I get off work! Good idea, Thanks.
    Semper Fi

  13. #13
    riverider4741 Guest

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by chiz45 View Post
    Lately on arfcom, there has been a heavy push towards reliabiliy upgrades, like Crane O rings, D-fenders, heavy tension extractor springs, shrouded fire pins, etc. What is the mil-spec requirement for these springs, and are these things exceeding that tension standard? I haven't heard of any problems using these various 'upgrades' (i've used a D-fender, O-ring, green Specialized Armament extractor springs--but NOT all in the same gun!), but was curious if you guys have seen/heard of any problems.
    ====
    If you just need some heavy duty ejector springs and incerts with the Crane O-ring. Bravo has a good price on this item.
    http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-E...20%203pack.htm

    If you just want a good deal on just on a #60 Viton O-ring MCMaster Carr has them for $5.55 for 100+Shipping
    http://www.mcmaster.com/
    It's best to order by phone the Web. site is a problem many times.

  14. #14
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    Not the most current pic, but this is my HD carbine.

    - DPMS Lt Wt barrel
    - BM C7 upper
    - RRA lower
    - BCM upgraded bolt
    - “H” buffer
    - SF “classic”

    I have 100% confidence in this rifle and in my ability to operate it under any circumstances where I might need it.


  15. #15
    Eric Rice Guest
    If manufacturers would just build and spec their rifles with proper parts, this would be a non-issue. Fortunately, a good spring and an o-ring are cheap insurance for the CAR-length guns.

    OT: For those of you who might have to use your weapons in low-light conditions (50% of the day), kudos for getting white lights. However, if you've ever trained at night, you'd quickly find out that the red dot optic is more valuable for making good hits than a light.

    Nice rifle, USMC. ;-)

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