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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulosantos View Post
    If I had the right equipment I would stake it just for the added security, but I don't have a vice, so I went with the blue loctite method.
    Automatic Center Punch is the easiest way, but for me it's not a single-purpose tool as I also use it for other things.
    (and I stake a lot of receiver endplates for people. you know, after that impenetrable blue locktite comes loose )
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Automatic Center Punch is the easiest way, but for me it's not a single-purpose tool as I also use it for other things.
    (and I stake a lot of receiver endplates for people. you know, after that impenetrable blue locktite comes loose )
    They must not be using the Mil-Spec Blue Loctite then. LOL. They must be using the "Good Enough" Blue Loctite. LOL.

  3. #18
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hwang View Post
    Here is a message from Daniel Young, president of Young MFG on why they do not stake their gas keys.
    Wow! Confuses me at this point.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #20
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    I've reparied 100s if not 1000s of carriers and have not had a carrier key come lose nor broken a screw. My method is lapping the key on a whetstone, using Rocksett as a sealant on the key and on the screw threads. Using new screws Torx head and torquing to 55in lbs. Then staking with a MOACKS tool. YMMV.

    My work regardless of nature features a lifetime warranty.

    FWIW the Rocksett and torque will hold the screw tight. The staking ensures that it won't come lose even if the Rocksett somehow fails. Anyone who's been around aircraft (mainly helicopters) will remember torque on fasteners and secondary methods ensure that fasteners don't come lose.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
    Anyone who's been around aircraft (mainly helicopters) will remember torque on fasteners and secondary methods ensure that fasteners don't come lose.
    Very true. Every fastener has a torque.

    And self-locking nuts, cotter pins or safety wire to name a few, all act as back-ups to prevent loosening of hardware under the vibration of flight. Much the same way staking in addition to torque, keeps carrier key screws from backing out under the vibration of firing.

  7. #22
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    If using Permatex and torqueing works for Young then great. The point is to make sure that the key stays tight.
    However I have to wonder about a couple of his statements.

    “ The Mil Spec. also calls for the gas key bottom surface to be “SEALED” with Permatex gasket sealer.”
    I took off a lot of carrier keys when I was in the Army and never saw any thread locker or gasket sealer compounds on any of them. Also the TM doesn’t call for any to be used when replacing.

    “ Don’t use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires.”
    The TM does in fact call for the repairer to do exactly what Mr. Young is saying not to do. I can’t imagine that the military has been doing it wrong for all these years.
    Last edited by 5pins; 10 February 2010 at 12:13.

  8. #23
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    Just a little update on this. I'm just finishing up the Colt Armorer Class and I asked the instructor about this topic.

    The way Young Manufacturer recommends installing the carrier key is the new way of installing it and it is absolutely acceptable. If you want to stake the key after using the red loctite and torquing it down, you can, but it is NOT necessary. The old way of doing it is to torque the screws down and staking them. BOTH WAYS ARE ACCEPTABLE.

    I also asked about the castle nut and he doesn't recommend using blue loctite because it can damage the threads. It will definitely hold it in place, but if you plan on taking the buffer tube off, he does not recommend using using the blue loctite so I won't be using any loctite on the buffer tube.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulosantos View Post
    The way Young Manufacturer recommends installing the carrier key is the new way of installing it and it is absolutely acceptable. If you want to stake the key after using the red loctite and torquing it down, you can, but it is NOT necessary. The old way of doing it is to torque the screws down and staking them. BOTH WAYS ARE ACCEPTABLE.
    Acceptable to who? The instructor? Colt? The US Military?

    I may be alone in this, but until a document surfaces, preferably a US Military document, that says the glue method is acceptable, I'll stick to staking.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Acceptable to who? The instructor? Colt? The US Military?

    I may be alone in this, but until a document surfaces, preferably a US Military document, that says the glue method is acceptable, I'll stick to staking.
    It is acceptable to the instructor and to the technicians who came up with it. The instructor is real anal about doing things to the gun that aren't combat proven so I'd he says it is ok, I'll take his word for it that it is good.

  11. #26
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    Interesting. I wonder if Colt has actually changed their procedure while assembling factory weapons. The most recent ones I have seen have substantial staking applied from the sides.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Interesting. I wonder if Colt has actually changed their procedure while assembling factory weapons. The most recent ones I have seen have substantial staking applied from the sides.
    Colt still installs them the old way. They torque them to spec and stake them. They have a machine (machine, not tool), that stakes the carriers properly so they will continue to do it that way.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulosantos View Post
    It is acceptable to the instructor and to the technicians who came up with it. The instructor is real anal about doing things to the gun that aren't combat proven so I'd he says it is ok, I'll take his word for it that it is good.
    Without having any idea who this person is, I'm going to consider it one man's opinion.

    Those that I've queried about this that know more than I do all share my opinion that the Young letter is no more than a way of explaining away why they do not do something that they cannot do. I see no reason not to stake other than a surface treatment that may crack, and I see no benefit in the surface treatment.

    When the TDP changes, or Colt starts shipping guns with keys affixed in the manner listed, maybe I'll change my tune.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulosantos View Post
    Just a little update on this. I'm just finishing up the Colt Armorer Class and I asked the instructor about this topic.

    The way Young Manufacturer recommends installing the carrier key is the new way of installing it and it is absolutely acceptable. If you want to stake the key after using the red loctite and torquing it down, you can, but it is NOT necessary. The old way of doing it is to torque the screws down and staking them. BOTH WAYS ARE ACCEPTABLE.

    I also asked about the castle nut and he doesn't recommend using blue loctite because it can damage the threads. It will definitely hold it in place, but if you plan on taking the buffer tube off, he does not recommend using using the blue loctite so I won't be using any loctite on the buffer tube.
    Interesting...
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  15. #30
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    Paulo,

    Which instructor taught your class?

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