AR Virgin Needs Direction

[TehLlama]

Wow, it's too bad I missed a day or two - Rob's advice on the G&R order was great (differed from the one I put in last month by only one part), you'll be extremely happy with that.

For the sight - If fixed is what you want, Daniel Defense. For flip -- MagPul MBUS or TROY.
Handguard - the MOE Middy should work, if you decide you need rails and don't want to modify it further, the Omega 9.0 is a definite option. There's others folks will chime in about too.

For a first buy, you've made better choices than most do on their second or third builds.

[Big Willy]

Hi guys!

Many thanks to all who have taken the time to assist me in the selection of parts for my first AR platform gun! Parts should start trickling in today and over the next few days. I can hardly wait (insert – like a kid on Christmas here).

I went with the DD 9” Omega Rail and the BCM (Troy) BUIS.

I have a few more questions for the Guru’s on this website:

• Any suggestions for Rail Panels for the Daniel Defense 9” Omega?

• Head Spacing – The BCM site says the Upper Assembly has been tested, test fired and head spaced. I’m using a Daniel Defense M16 Bolt. Will I need to head space this gun? If so, what is involved?

• Optics – Suggestions??? Aimpoint or Trijicon? I’m familiar with the T-1 Micro, but none of the others. My jury is out on if I want to go with magnification or not. Are any better than others for a guy who is right handed and left eye dominant (I know… sucks to be me)?

• Ammo – What to use and what to stay away from? How does the Bear brand work? What style and weight of bullet should I look for if I’m doing a bulk buy?

Well… I blew by my $1000.00 budget. Like they said in the movie Zombie Land “Nut-up or Shut-up”. So… I decided to “Nut-Up”!

Thanks again for all of your help!

Big Willy

[rob_s]

1) I like the Magpul XTM panels when I need a full coverage, and the Ergo ladder panels when I don't. I tend to use XTM on bottom, ladders on side & top.
2) no need to worry about headspacing on an AR. If the bolt closes/seats you're fine.
3) Optics depend on use. Indoor vs. outdoor, distance of engagement, so on and so forth. For red-dots I am an Aimpoint-only fan.
4) I am a big shooter of Wolf ammo, but stick to the 55 and 62 grain versions. Many other shooters refuse to use Wolf and prefer to stick with brass-cased ammo and I don't fault them for it. IIRC most, if not all, of the Bear stuff is steel-cased.

[Big Willy]

Rob,

Thanks for the reply! Good info!

The gun will be used:

• For things that go bump in the night

• Limited indoor – Target, home defense and tactical (training) sometime in the future

• Outdoor use – Target (and tactical training one day) and Hunting

Thanks again!

Big Willy

[Big Willy]

TehLlama,

Are you active military? Just wondering if you are over in the sandbox after reading the bottom part of your message.

Big Willy

[TehLlama]

I am indeed - just got back from A-Stan.
On topic:

For your uses, the T-1 or H-1 should work just fine - if you decide to add magnification, you can with a FTS magnifier - should be fine without it. The 3MOA dot is a great size for use out to 300m, and more practical for target shooting that people give it credit for. I really enjoy TA31's, but the T-1 is much better for close use.
If you're not going to run NVG's, the H-1 is probably the most affordable. As great at LaRue mounts are, I favor the ADM in this application (cheap interchangeable spacer, Co heigh available, QD - weight is the only drawback, DD fixed also good). G&R's package deal is tough to beat.
The ERGO/Magpul rail ladders are a great choice, lightweight and cheap. I'm not the biggest fan of XTM's

[Big Willy]

TehLlama,

Thank you for the reply!

Welcome back! God bless you and yours. On behalf of me and my family, THANK YOU for your service to our country!

I can’t wait to touch my new toy off! I’m still waiting on my Daniel Defense BCG which was accidently left out of my original parts order. I hope it will arrive soon.

How does the FTS Magnifier work with the Red Dot? I’ve been doing some reading and some say the mix (mag + dot) makes the 4 MOA Red Dot grow as well due to it being magnified. Does this (FTS) mount fore or aft of the T-1?

Take care,

Big Willy

[TehLlama]

Has to mount aft, and as such it will also magnify the 3MOA dot of the micro Aimpoint. Not a problem per se, but it is a different feel from the true low power variable scopes. The biggest strength of that setup, especially with the LT FTS mount is that you can just set the magnifier aside when you're not at the range if you feel you don't need it mounted.

[rob_s]

One other thing to keep in mind with the magnifier is that you'll need a rear sight (removable, foldable, whatever) that accommodates it.

I have used a magnifier with my Aimpoint C3, and very briefly with my T-1, and I am of mixed opinion on the thing. I think that a lot of people use them because they expect the magnifier to help them get hits at moderate distance and this is really not what they are useful for. I base this opinion on the number of people I've seen at classes that will run back to their range bag to get a magnifier when they find out we're going out to 100+ yards in training classes vs. the people that I just watched last Tuesday night hit a 1/2 man-sized steel plate at 150 yards with a T-1 with no magnification in reduced lighting conditions.

Given the types of barrels, quality of ammo, and abilities of most shooters, magnification of the optic is not only not needed but is a waste IMHO. I have shot at 200 yards on a 6" steel plate with an un-magnified 4 MOA dot Aimpoint using an 11.5" "pencil" barrel and XM193. According to the internet this should not have been possible.

Where the magnifiers really come into their own is in target ID at distance. I have shot in matches where there were playing cards at distance and you shot the card that matched the one you pulled from the deck. This would be impossible without magnification. I an also think of "tactical" situations where you may need a better view of what is going on downrange (although few that would pertain to the non-LE civilian world).

Like most things I can't stress enough that you should get out and shoot the hell out of the gun and look for weak points. If you find that you're not accomplishing your goals or meeting your needs without a magnifier then add one. But if the choice is between signing up for a quality carbine course and buying the magnifier, the course wins hands down. The skills you'll learn from someone like Randy Cain will far outlive and out-value any singular piece of hardware on the gun.

[Big Willy]

Hi Guys!

Thanks for the information guys!

My situation is I’m looking to identify an Optic for this firearm. Money is tight. I’d like to make one purchase (and not regret it - at the price these things go for).

I have an Aimpoint T-1 Micro on a different firearm. I’m trying to decide on if I should:

• Buy a mount and move the T-1 to the AR – If I use this option, what is the best option for a mount?
• Buy a new Aimpoint or Trijcon - what model if I do so? T-1 thru 4 or ACOG???
• Go with something else on the market – What?

I have mounted a BCM (Troy) Folding BUIS on my new toy. I would like to have the ability to co-witness the BUIS through the optic of choice. Do you see ant issues with doing this?

Thank you for all of your time and input!

Big Willy

[Rated21R]

I'd pick up an Aimpoint C3 or ML2/ML3. You can generally find them around for good prices and what you or most folks will use them for they work nicely. The Aimpoint Micros are nice, but the prices are higher. Pick up a Bobro Mount, the 150 and you can co-witness with your iron sights. I only suggest Bobro because that is what I have and it is rock solid and the CS that they provide is top notch. Sounds like you are putting togehter quite the build. Save money for ammo/training and then just shoot, shoot, shoot and train as much as you can.

[rob_s]

21R brings up a good point, and I think it's come up before in this thread, and that's training. If money is tight but you have enough for a good 1-4x ($1k give or take) that means you have enough for a C3 in mount ($450 +/-) and a training class ($500+/-). I would vote option two.

I know I tend to beat the training drum pretty loudly, but I see first-hand the consequences of not getting training every fourth Tuesday night of the month at our matches and every first Tuesday night of the month at our drills nights. I try my best to impart what I can to the shooters in the 2.5 hours that I "instruct" them, but a true 3-day training class from a quality instructor will give you much more value than any optic, rail system, stock, etc. Cost:benefits the only thing with a greater ratio is the Gapper. :D

[5pins]

I think you should take a good hard look at this one.
http://swfa.com/Aimpoint-CompM2-30mm...it-P44111.aspx

[rob_s]

While there is nothing *wrong* with the M2, the C3 is newer technology, comes in 2 or 4 MOA, and can be had with an ADM mount for $2 less than the SWFA price.

[Big Willy]

Hi Guys!

Once again, THANK YOU for all of the great information and advice! I've got my new toy all together (other than the optic). Now I am waiting for my AMMO to arrive and then it's time to head to the range!

Pro's and Con's of 2MOA v. s. 4MOA on the C3? Is the C3 you speak of the COMPC3?

What a great forum! Thanks for bringing me into the AR world!

Big Willy