Help me pick my first shotgun!

[Emilio84]

So, I have decided to abandon my second AR build and instead sell the lower/lpk and use that money to put towards a shotgun. My ideal budget is under $500... closer to 3-400 if possible. I don't hunt (yet) and if I go trap/skeet shooting I'd most likely rent the gun so I'm looking mostly for a HD gun.

As far as I can tell a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 should fit the bill but I was hoping to get some input from the forum.

[TripleBravo]

A Remington 870 (IMHO) is your best option. It is extremely rugged and more versatile than a Moss 500 (ie you can add a magazine extension). I got this one for the low $400s a couple of years ago:

[m24shooter]

If you're going to consider Mossbergs, I would go with the 590 line. The mag tube and barrel interface is like the 870 as opposed to the PITA method they use on almost all of their 500s. If you get a 5 shot 590 you can add an extension if you want. If you get the 8 shot, you're stuck with it unless you change the barrel too because of the forward mag tube barrel lug. With the 500 series, you pretty much have to change the barrel and the mag tube to add or decrease capacity.
Either the 870 or 590 would be a good choice.

[Optimus Prime]

Picked up a used 24" barreled Mossberg 930 a couple weeks ago for $400, have since added a +5 Nordic extension, GG&G front sling plate(the 870 plate fits perfect), and Gear Sector sling (have the fixed stock adapter on the way...)

I would go with a shorter barrel if you want it for home defense, but I'm setting this one up for comp, so the longer barrel just lets me put a longer mag tube underneath, and the added accuracy is nice.
No major issues with light field loads either, and recoil even with 1oz. slugs is not all that bad.

[Emilio84]

These pictures are definitely not making it easier for me. Anyone have a mossberg 590a1?

I have shot a friend's 870 and the safety position and slide release position kinda bugged me as I had to move my hand around to actuate them. Loading also kinda had me fumbling. Then again all this could be due to it being the first time I dealt with that specific weapon.

[Emilio84]

Also considering the Mossberg 50665. I definitely need to run by the local gun shops after work and see what they have in stock.

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../NEW/50665.jpg

[Optimus Prime]

My first shotgun was a 20" 590 (still have it).

No problems really, but like has been said, I have the 8 round factory tube, so I'm pretty limited on barrel options. To top it off, I bought it on sale three years ago for not much less than I dropped on my 930. But like I said, I bought the 590 brand spankin' new, and the 930 used (although the outside was immaculate, and just enough rounds run through to get brass marks inside the action. Used, but not much.)
When it boils down to it, the type of shooting I will be doing with my personal shotguns really means that there is no advantage to a pump over a semi-auto. Pumps are great if you are using exotic loads (most self loaders can't handle long cases, and breaching ops with an auto is a bad idea) and some are touchy about ammo (recoil operated, like Benellis, may not cycle with light or low recoil loads); but for general use I feel the lower recoil and resulting faster shooting are a much better trade-off, plus semis are simpler to use. Flick off the safety and squeeze the trigger, no risk of short stroking.
On the other hand, pumps do tend to be cheaper, and like Massad Ayoob said in Stressfire II, a pump gun right now beats an auto on layaway. Also, if you have a desire for a folding stock or pistol grip, a pump would be the way to go. Most semi-auto shotguns have their operating spring housed, to varying extent, in the stock. If you want a tactical pistol grip type stock on a 930, the only one I am aware of is the Choate. There's nothing wrong with it that I know of, but I think it's butt-ugly.

[Optimus Prime]

Also considering the Mossberg 50665. I definitely need to run by the local gun shops after work and see what they have in stock.

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../NEW/50665.jpg

That's actually just a 590 just like mine with a Speedfeed stock, 50665 is just the picture's file name.

[ColonelColt]

I have to definitely throw my vote in with Mossberg. I got a used 590 a few years ago for only $300 at a local shop in Florida when I lived there. It had barely been used and was a great deal. Now, if someone handed me a Remington and said "You're stuck with this." I wouldn't start crying about it but I think the Mossberg is overall a better design for military, police, or home defense. It was designed that way from the beginning whereas the 870 was designed as a sporting shotgun and both show their heritage.

The 870's placement of controls reflects not wanting to "accidentally" open the breech so you have to remove either hand from your firing position and depress the bolt release. While this might help prevent accidental opening through user error, it puts the release in a very exposed place which is easy to bump open. With the Mossberg you simply angle your middle finger up and pull the slide to the rear, it's placement makes it nearly impossible to be opened by external forces.

Safety placement: The 870 was modeled after older military rifles (like the M1 Carbine) with it's right handed push button safety behind the trigger guard While this might be quick to push off while your finger is moving toward the trigger, it's pretty much impossible to do this left handed while maintaining a proper firing grip. If you ever have to shoot around a right hand corner you have to remember this. With the 500 the safety is located on the top rear of the shotgun and this has two advantages: First you can visually see when you shoulder the weapon whether or not the safety is on which can be important when you're quickly shouldering the weapon. Secondly, it's ambidextrous! No matter which hand you use the weapon with your motions are always going to be the same, important in a panic situation. People tearing their clothes and weeping about the plastic safety slider possibly breaking can be ignored unless you're really going into combat. If you're worried about it though, you can still operate the safety even if the slider breaks off or you could easily get a metal replacement.

As far as materials go, the Remington has a steel receiver. While the extra mass helps a bit with recoil, you have to worry more about corrosion. Almost none of them come tapped on top for mounting sights or a rail. The Mossberg's receiver is a lighter weight aluminum alloy that's durable and can't rust. If you trust your Arf receiver not to wear out while cycling hot .223 and being cooked by burning propellant, don't worry about either receiver. The Mossberg is also designed to be easier to disassemble and repair by the individual. The biggest part of this is the ejector being riveted into the receiver on the Remington compared to screwed in on the Mossberg.

Barrel/magazine configurations: Most people will find the five shot or six shot standard tube on either shotgun to be entirely satisfactory for their needs. Mossberg's 590s hold eight but there are two tube types. One is a stretched out version of the 500's that still has a fixed plug in the end but isn't really an issue with 8+1 ready to go. You can see it here. The other type was developed from the military 590 originally intended to mount a bayonet, sometimes you'll find them with the bayonet mounting lug and sometimes you won't. Here is a mariner in one configuration and a full 590 in another with speedfeed stock configuration. The latter is what I currently own and I quite like the speedfeed stock on it giving me a total of nine 00 buckshot, two slugs, and two rubber slugs onboard. I've thought about going to a side folding stock with a side receiver mount for extra ammunition storage. Stay away from collapsing stocks unless you think you'll be regularly switching between using bulky body armor and gear and firing it without, they're almost universally flimsy and bulkier than the standard stock.

If you really wanted the shorter barrel with the Mossberg, or the longer barrel and tube, it's a very simple matter to acquire the other tube and screw it into your receiver. This is cheap compared to what your new barrel, for either brand, will cost you so it's a negligible consideration. I've also found that a lot of people find the Mossberg easier to load as it pulls the elevator up tight against the bottom of the bolt when the slide is home meaning you're not fighting the elevator loading it and you can practice dropping rounds into the magazine well and pushing them forward with ease.

Anyway, I'm sure I've forgotten some salient points but this is getting a bit long and a bit late. Feel free to ask any more questions. I do this all day every day and to be honest, I sell a lot of Remingtons along with the Mossbergs. Some people simply can't think themselves out of the "Remington Box" and no matter what you tell them, they'll stick to what their dad used or what they've heard from a buddy. However, to reiterate, both of these shotguns are perfectly fine for most uses and they both do the same thing at both ends of the barrel. They both have tons of accessories on the market and have been around a long while. One of the best shotguns I've personally ever owned was a High Standard Riot gun made out of glorious steel and walnut that was very handy and built like a tank. Of course that stubby bastard also kicked heinously with slugs loaded into it. - Colt

P.S. Thanks again, Emilio84, for your advice on Arf parts.

[Emilio84]

ColonelColt - you pretty much echo'd my thoughts when it came to the controls/features of the Mossberg 590.. with an average street price in the low $400 range it seems like a great deal as well. Like I wrote earlier.. the safety and slide release on the 870 are just placed all wrong in my eyes. Really nice handling shotgun but maybe not for my purpose.

Do you know the Overall Length on your 590? It appears you have the one I am looking at buying so I'm just curious.

[bigcoastie]

My vote would be for a Benelli or an 870, I really like my Supernova Tactical it came with pretty much everything I could have wanted, all I did was add a nordic extension and I was in business. The sights are very good for HD use and the pistol grip stock w/ the 18.5" barrel for me was ideal. I messed around with getting an 870 and upgrading the stock and sights but got the Benelli b/c it was good to go out of the box for what I wanted.

[m24shooter]

930 SPX





590A1

[Optimus Prime]

A Benelli would be a fantastic choice... if you can afford one. I don't think I've ever seen one for under $500 though.

[bigcoastie]

A Benelli would be a fantastic choice... if you can afford one. I don't think I've ever seen one for under $500 though.

I got mine for $425, MSRP is right around $495 if I remember correctly as long as you're looking for pump action you can get a Benelli for a decent price it's their semis that are 1k + guns

[ColonelColt]

It's right around 40 glorious inches, Emilio. Obviously having different pads and stuff on it will affect the length. It's an extra 6.5 inches with the bayonet. I do like the Benellis, my only real issue with them is the bulk of the polymer receiver and they're not very common so accessory and part options will be reduced... But as mentioned above, if it has what you want, go for it.

I really would like to see someone respond to some of my points about Remington/Mossberg with logical reasoning. At work I obviously can't demand customers explain themselves when they say "I just like Remington better!" Though I'm certainly not one of those people who's at all pushy about what people by but I'm good at telling you the pros and cons of most gun designs comparatively. I'm off to work now so I'll post more tonight. - Colt