Aimpoint M4 or T1 or _____

[jeffy]

I'm still working on my build but I'm almost done with the basics and them some. Now I'm looking into optics. I was first going to go with a Type II optic like a TA21 Accupoint. Actually, I wanted a S&B but that's not going to happen. After hearing some of the complaints with the TA21, it got me thinking. Do I really need magnification. I read USMC03's optic thread on ARF and Zak Smith's article ( http://demigodllc.com/articles/fight...s-short-guide/) and it had be rethink what I really needed. I'm probably not going to be shooting much further then 200yrds most of the time and probably never past 400. I'd like to use the rifle as a house/camping gun so I think 0-200yrds sounds about right. I could just go with iron sights but I want more. The other stipulation is that I'd like to keep the cost down under $700. So that leaves out the ACOGs.

What I was left with was the Eotech's and Aimpoints. To keep it short, I chose the Aimpoint. I'm leaning towards the M4 and the T1 for my carbine. Any reason not to choose one of these, other then price? Then there are mounts. From what I read the mount on the M4 is made by ARMS. Some like it some don't. The cheapest price ($650) I've seen one for was from GG&G with a GG&G mount. LaRue had theirs for the same price as MAP ($702). Is it worth it to go with the LaRue over the GG&G for the $52 difference? Does LaRue has unadvertised prices? Anyone else fine better pricing?

[TigerStripe]

I would have gone with an EOTech, but that doesn't really matter... Everyone has an unadvertised price. Rainier has always done me right!


TS

[aus71383]

I've been thinking about the same thing, and also decided on an Aimpoint M4. When I get it, I'll get it from LaRue. I ordered some PMAGs from them last week but never asked about LE/Mil discounts - I was happy to get them at their advertised price. Plus I don't like milking it for all its worth - and it is for private use. That being said, I would suspect they do offer LE/Mil pricing of some kind. As it stands, I got a free LT-205 in the package.

Austin

[jeffy]

I would have gone with an EOTech, but that doesn't really matter... Everyone has an unadvertised price. Rainier has always done me right!


TS

I checked Rainer and they were a bit higher and only had the ARMS mount. I'll have to email LaRue and see if they can match GG&G. Funny thing is GG&G's M4 with the OEM ARMS mount is $702.

I've been thinking about the same thing, and also decided on an Aimpoint M4. When I get it, I'll get it from LaRue. I ordered some PMAGs from them last week but never asked about LE/Mil discounts - I was happy to get them at their advertised price. Plus I don't like milking it for all its worth - and it is for private use. That being said, I would suspect they do offer LE/Mil pricing of some kind. As it stands, I got a free LT-205 in the package.

Austin

I'm neither an LEO or Mil so that doesn't help me any, I'm afraid. I do like the LaRue mount the best out of what I've seen. I kinda wish I changed my mind about optics easier since I bought a Troy rear BUIS. I would have liked to have used the LaRue BUIS instead. At least it gives me the option of using a multiplyer later on.

[Stickman]

I wouldn't get too worried about the mounts. KAC and ARMS were the first to introduce the one piece repeat zero mounts. Its not done with magic, its simply a matter of tolerances, and both companies do it well.

If you look at real world use, the MIL specifies ARMS. Sure there are people who have had problems with ARMS mounts, but its due to the vast amount of them in real world use. These are the same troops who are breaking all other pieces of issued equipment.

In LE circles, I think I've seen more GG&G mounts for Eotechs, and ARMS mounts for Aimpoints than the rest combined. Again, this is real world use from guys who care more about staying alive than what someone is trying to sell on the web.

If you are looking at LT items, chances are that they will work fine for you. Most people don't take their mounts on and off enough to ever have any trouble. The people that have had problems have had their items quickly replaced, just like the major manufacturers do.

If you are interested in the Aimpoint M4, I believe John Noveske has given input into the M4 mount that American Defense Manufacturing is getting ready to release. Knowing John and his attention to detail, I have no doubt these will be rock solid, and reliable even with heavy use.


Lastly, if you made it this far, SHOT 08 is going to open up the eyes of a lot of people. For those individuals that are impassioned about the magic of optic mounts, it should prove exciting. For the rest of us, we will simple see more quality offering on the table.

[jeffy]

I wouldn't get too worried about the mounts. KAC and ARMS were the first to introduce the one piece repeat zero mounts. Its not done with magic, its simply a matter of tolerances, and both companies do it well.

If you look at real world use, the MIL specifies ARMS. Sure there are people who have had problems with ARMS mounts, but its due to the vast amount of them in real world use. These are the same troops who are breaking all other pieces of issued equipment.

In LE circles, I think I've seen more GG&G mounts for Eotechs, and ARMS mounts for Aimpoints than the rest combined. Again, this is real world use from guys who care more about staying alive than what someone is trying to sell on the web.

If you are looking at LT items, chances are that they will work fine for you. Most people don't take their mounts on and off enough to ever have any trouble. The people that have had problems have had their items quickly replaced, just like the major manufacturers do.

If you are interested in the Aimpoint M4, I believe John Noveske has given input into the M4 mount that American Defense Manufacturing is getting ready to release. Knowing John and his attention to detail, I have no doubt these will be rock solid, and reliable even with heavy use.


Lastly, if you made it this far, SHOT 08 is going to open up the eyes of a lot of people. For those individuals that are impassioned about the magic of optic mounts, it should prove exciting. For the rest of us, we will simple see more quality offering on the table.

Good points. You're right I probably wouldn't notice any difference in the mounts. I don't plan on removing it unless there is a failure of some kind. At that point, it probably won't be under extreme conditions where I need to be able to remove it fast or at all. I was reading about the M4 on m4carbine and a rep (FJB) was talking about the ARMS mount and how rugged it was.

Here are some pictures of the different mounts for those more visually inclined.


The other thing I'm wondering is how far up I should mount it when I get one. The LaRue mount looks more like a Cantilever. While the GG&G looks like it uses the whole side of the base which could be a problem if I want to move it to the end of the receiver rail. Aimpoint looks like they're making a cantilever spacer but it doesn't seem to be out yet. I've seen the picts of it from FJB and in Militarytimes though.

I probably shouldn't get hung up on mounts and just get one, huh?

I'm also trying to get the most value since it a decent amount of money. $702 seems to be the MAP price. LaRue has it for $702 with their mount. GG&G has it for $650 with their mount but it's $702 with the OEM mount. Tate Defense was said to have it for $598. Snapberry.com seems to have the lowest price at $589

[Stickman]

I want a mount that engages with as much surface as possible on both sides. However, if you aren't pulling it on and off, its not a big deal either way.

I would go with the stock piece if I could find it cheaper that way.

[jeffy]

I want a mount that engages with as much surface as possible on both sides. However, if you aren't pulling it on and off, its not a big deal either way.

I would go with the stock piece if I could find it cheaper that way.

Seems that the QD style mounts use very little to secure it on one side. Atleast that's what I've seen from the current offerings. I'm sure things will change soon enough.

Another thing I realized. There is a new M4 coming out after SHOTs, it seems. They moved the battery cylinder from the 2o'clock position to the 5o'clock position. I guess it moved the CG lower and less to get hung-up on? They also have a cantilever mount for it as well. I'd assume that after this comes out the current M4 will drop some in price if they end up replacing it with the new one.

Also, anyone a proponent of the Micro T-1?

I should mention that this is going on a 14.5" Carbine build with a DD Omega.

[12131]

If you're considering the Micro T-1, also consider getting a rail riser, because the Micro T-1 as it comes from Aimpoint sits very low on the rail, and I mean very low.

[jeffy]

If you're considering the Micro T-1, also consider getting a rail riser, because the Micro T-1 as it comes from Aimpoint sits very low on the rail, and I mean very low.

Yeah, if I go with the T-1 I'll definitely go with a mount like the LaRue. It looks a bit small on top of the rail with all that real estate. I'm wondering if I'd be better off with the larger M4 though.

[John Hwang]

I personally like the mount that comes with the M4

[jeffy]

I personally like the mount that comes with the M4

Have you tried any other mounts for comparison?

[John Hwang]

I have accucam systems & Larue systems and they all work well enough, with each having pluses and minuses. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I don't need to swap out something that is working perfectly to get something that may or may not work any better. To me quick detachment is a convenient feature but not a necessity.

[12131]

I have accucam systems & Larue systems and they all work well enough, with each having pluses and minuses. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I don't need to swap out something that is working perfectly to get something that may or may not work any better. To me quick detachment is a convenient feature but not a necessity.

Agree. My Comp M4 sits on the original mount, and it's just fine.

[jeffy]

Good point. I just might save myself the $50 and get the basic setup with the ARMS. I noticed one site adjusted it's price recently, too.