Lasers on Handguns

[Stocks]

Any LE's using lasers on thier duty pistols?

I acquired a Sig Sauer P220 with factory Crimson Trace laser grips. I have been doing a lot of shooting with and without the laser. I find that the laser tends to hinder me more than benefit me. I notice when the laser is activated it trains my attention more on the red dot than my overall peripheral vision and surroundings while firing on target. The laser tends to create a tunnel vision type of effect. I am just going to stay with my weapon light and night sights.

Only thing I can imagine using a laser for effectively is marking a target for another team member, but this would be more of a military battle type of use!

Anyone else have input on laser use, I'd like to hear your perspective. Thanks.

[hwaya]

CT grips are great for shooting in awkward positions that hinder your ability to acquire your sights.

[Paulo_Santos]

It just takes training. If I was allowed to use a lazer, I'd use it in a heartbeat. I've read enough on lazers to understand the benefits.

[Eric]

I'm not aware of any agency that issues lasers across the board. Most tend to view them as a specialty tool for applications such as the shield guy on a team.

[hwaya]

Go Here:http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Get...5/Default.aspx

Order the free DVD and it'll explain why lasers are good.

[Optimus Prime]

They're great for awkward positions where you can't get a good sight picture, as well as low light shooting, from what I understand (I haven't shot with one yet, so take that as you will.)

I've also heard some LEOs like them for the deterrent factor. One thing Hollywood has taught the bad guys is that that little red dot is not your friend. How much merit that has I'm sure is questionable, but I could see it working on some people.

[Wondering Beard]

I tend to be skeptical of lasers but after hearing some very serious people speak favorably about them (the late Jim Cirillo, Larry Vickers, Ken hackathorn etc..), I may have to change my mind.

The way I understand it (without any first hand experience yet) is that the laser should be zeroed in such a manner that it appears as if it sits right on top of the front sight; sort of like a red dot on a carbine.

I know it's great to help instructors see what a new shooter might be doing wrong as well as the aforementioned awkward positions where acquiring the front sight might be nigh impossible.

I imagine that in low light conditions it can also be very helpful though it is incapable of target ID, just like tritium.

With the development of rugged red dot sights for pistols, however, the laser may be losing ground.

[zero7one]

I've also heard some LEOs like them for the deterrent factor. One thing Hollywood has taught the bad guys is that that little red dot is not your friend. How much merit that has I'm sure is questionable, but I could see it working on some people.

Which totally violates the fundamental firearms safety rule of "Never point your gun at anything you are not willing to shoot." I know you may think..."I'm willing to shoot this guy." But the question is, are you justified in doing so? If not and you have a ND, then kiss your job, house, car, and retirement account gone.

Using a laser as a deterrent is a BIG No-No and any instructor or department that authorizes the use of a laser for this should rethink their policy.

[Optimus Prime]

Which totally violates the fundamental firearms safety rule of "Never point your gun at anything you are not willing to shoot." I know you may think..."I'm willing to shoot this guy." But the question is, are you justified in doing so? If not and you have a ND, then kiss your job, house, car, and retirement account gone.

Using a laser as a deterrent is a BIG No-No and any instructor or department that authorizes the use of a laser for this should rethink their policy.

If that's the case, I sure would be willing to shoot the guy. If he stops doing whatever he was doing and I decided not to shoot him then, better all around, and not any different than any other time an LEO covers a subject with their duty weapon. I would never relly on it as a deterent, but I've heard it from a few different sources. (FWIW, I don't have a laser on my daily carry gun, and I am not armed at my current job, just passing on what I've heard.)

[zero7one]

not any different than any other time an LEO covers a subject with their duty weapon

Not quite. As a Law Enforcement Officer and a Firearms Instructor, our Officers are not trained to and should not be trained to "point in" at the subject unless they have made a conscious decision to use lethal force. Does everyone abide by this rule? No. Should they? Yes!

Hollywood movies do not count and what you see on COPS (though they are real LE), does not mean that they are deploying proper tactics or safety fundamentals.

[Optimus Prime]

Like I said, I'm not armed where I work, so my training is all .mil side of things. Just passing on what I've heard.

[zero7one]

I am not doubting what you heard. I'm just explaining my side from a LE perspective.

The Military and Law Enforcement mission, training, and liabilities are somewhat different, but each could take a little from each other to make them better.

Sent from my HTC EVO using Tapatalk.

[phirehawk]

As an avid shooter and civi who spends way too much time playing with his favorite hobby (it turned a PT job into managing a gun store w/ indoor range), I'll throw in my two pennies. I own them, use them quite a bit and have at one point or another fallen on both sides of the laser coin. They are great for two types of people: 1) Those who train quite a bit and know how to use them as a tool in their toolbox 2) People who want them on a gun in a drawer they'll never carry and likely never use. It's the people in the middle that they have a detrimental effect on.

1) I hope I fall into this category. I shoot a few times a week and have trained myself to not see the dot unless I want to. They are FANTASTIC for unusual sight pictures. Aingle off hand shooting is one place we don't train enough and this is a crutch for that. It is a crutch... while mine have never failed, I can tell you that one day, they might. I have several on various guns and love them as part of my tool box, but I do a lot (75-90%) of my shooting with them turned off. CT had claims (not sure if they still do) about some South American country's police issuing them with lots of BG compliance to the dot. It also has been used to train K9 units, though usually with a laser pointer.

2) Tell the person who don't shoot to change the batteries yearly and sight it in for them and they'll be much better off. As much shooting as I do, I'm not sure in a violent confrontation (never been in one w/ a gun thank God) I'd focus on my front sight. It is human nature to focus on the threat. For most people, this is one heck of an aid. Remember, the majority of bullets miss the target, even at point blank ranges.

For everyone in the middle: It is awful and should be avoided at all costs. I have seen really good shooters turn into poop with them 'cause they are too busy looking for the dot. Or, they'll put the dot on the X and be annoyed when the bullet is off (usually low). It will slow down their shooting because now they're looking for perfect laser guided bullets to justify their cost instead of tactically accurate shooting. It is possible to get lazy and rely on them. That is no good. It is also common for shooters to develop lots of bad habits by looking over their sights the instant of the shot, yada yada...

Now, it is one of the best training aids I have ever come in contact with. Put a laser in a new shooter's hand with a few live rounds and a few snap caps in the mag... it does some of my teaching for me. "See that dot drop down and left? You're anticipating the shot and yanking that trigger." It also (dry gun, or in my case, I do have some blue guns w/ lasers) helps with muzzle awareness. I still fight that smooth draw to the rear with the trigger, and I find that it helps me quite a bit.

So, to the OP: When you are shooting at the range, I know how difficult it is not to look at the red dot. How I overcame this is to have a training partner watch the dot and tell me when I yanked on the bang switch. Because they are looking, you are focused on trigger discipline/sight alignment and train yourself to avoid looking for the dot. You can also zero the dot for 25 yards and do your shooting at three. This will keep the dot below your front sight. Force yourself to shoot a random number of times, then look around - just the act will pull your attention off the dot. When you look a few times, as quickly as you can, reacquire the target and shoot another string. If you are rushing it, you won't care where the dot is... and you won't see it.

With that long diatribe, there are people who just don't like 'em no matter how you slice it. I have decided that I do like 'em, but am not reliant on them.

[oregonshooter]

Not quite. As a Law Enforcement Officer and a Firearms Instructor, our Officers are not trained to and should not be trained to "point in" at the subject unless they have made a conscious decision to use lethal force. Does everyone abide by this rule? No. Should they? Yes!.

Hmmm... It may not be "policy" but it sure was common practice at my SO to cover scroats with the gun. I put an M6 laser on my G21 after seeing scroats not know I even had a gun on them (they only see your light) getting all worked up until my partner added a red dot to the equation and they calmed the hell down RIGHT THEN.

It works as a deterrent as well as a shotgun IME.

[Stocks]

I notice lasers work great on Tazers. Bad guys freak when the Tazer comes out and that red dot hits them!! Makes sense that a laser would be good for low light applications where the sights cannot bee seen or like you guys said, in a situation where vision is obscured. Thanks for the feedback on this subject. Proper Training is the key! My agency does not allow the use of lasers on pistols or rifles, but we will see if that changes in the future!