Troy Industries

[jeffy]

I just received a new 2008 Troy catalog today (finally got my FDE BUIS) and was checking it out. It has the new Drop-in 7" MRF rail BUT I did notice a discrepancy with the announcement on the forum (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...read.php?t=262). The catalog states it is a 'non free floating' direct replacement.

The catalog also shows Upper receiver groups now. Seems they have 7 different upper configs. They also have what they're calling the Troy M7A1 which is a 7.5" complete package.

• 18" SS 1/8 Match Hbar
• 18" SS 6.8mm SPC 1/10 Match Hbar
• 16" Mid Chrome Lined 1/7 MP
• 10" CQB
• 16" Chrome lined 1/7 MP
• 16" Chrome lined 1/7 MP MRF-RX
• 10" M4 CQB w/ MRF-MX

Then at the end of the catalog is a new optic. They're calling it a Troy DMR Optic. 1-4x22 Illuminated. I don't remember ever seeing this anywhere either. Comes with a LaRue SRP mount and has a MSRP under $600.

[12131]

Maybe Stickman will verify it. But, my guess is, the FF one from SHOT is so new that it did not make it to the catalog.

[SHIHAN]

Can you scan a the ad for the optic?

[jeffy]

Can you scan a the ad for the optic?

Sure.

I've been looking around to see who makes it but I'm still not sure. The Turrets are tall like a US Optics but it's not theirs.

[John Hwang]

Maybe Stickman will verify it. But, my guess is, the FF one from SHOT is so new that it did not make it to the catalog.

That's correct. The new FF carbine tube was not in the catalog. It looks like a nice piece of equipment especially for the money. I'm not sure who makes the optic for TROY but we noticed it in the catalog as well.

[jeffy]

That's correct. The new FF carbine tube was not in the catalog. It looks like a nice piece of equipment especially for the money. I'm not sure who makes the optic for TROY but we noticed it in the catalog as well.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I knew I must have missed something.

I'm still looking at options for optics. I think I'll give Troy a call and see if I can find anything out on the scope.

[Stickman]

Maybe Stickman will verify it. But, my guess is, the FF one from SHOT is so new that it did not make it to the catalog.

Sounds about right, and that was something pretty frequently noticed at the SHOW. There were a lot of long weeks for people in a quest to get prototypes to the floor of SHOT.

[SHIHAN]

Sure.

I've been looking around to see who makes it but I'm still not sure. The Turrets are tall like a US Optics but it's not theirs.

Thanks, its interesting that is going to be a made in the US scope. I wonder who is making it for them? I like the reticles on almost every lighted 1-4X better than Troys but if it is durable it might be a good option if they will sell it without the Larue mount.

[jeffy]

Thanks, its interesting that is going to be a made in the US scope. I wonder who is making it for them? I like the reticles on almost every lighted 1-4X better than Troys but if it is durable it might be a good option if they will sell it without the Larue mount.

The reticle is a small + that's illuminated with a slight gap between the rest of the posts. It comes in Red or Yellow from the looks of it.

I called Troy today but the tech guy wasn't there and hasn't called me back. I also left him an email so I'm hoping to hear back from him soon.

[caporider]

Looks like Troy is selling this scope in their catalog: Counter Sniper Crusader 1-4x24

[jeffy]

Looks like Troy is selling this scope in their catalog: Counter Sniper Crusader 1-4x24

Looks similar but the Troy is a 1-4x22mm not 1-4x24mm. Although they do look very close, especially the pict I found. The adjustments are 1/8 and not 1/4 MOA also. And the Troy isn't a Mil-dot. Although in the reviews someone says that the adjustments are 1/4 MOA and that it did not have a mil-dot reticle. Could be from the same company though.

Found a better listing with specs.

Specifications:
1x-4x 30mm body
24 mm primary objective
Side Focus

Forged T6160 Aircraft Alloy Covert Black Anodized Body, Locable Turrets, Proprietary -230-485 degree stable Bertrillium-Zantitium TM multicoated optics on both primary and secondary and all interior lens groups, Proprietary rare earth/nitrogen gas purged, hard earth sealed, Variable Power Illuminated CQM CLOSE QUARTER Tactical Distance Ranging Mildot .25-1.0 Miliradian front plane reticle, 5000g test.

10 year warranty against any manufacturing defects. EXPORT PROHIBITED.

[Cohibra45]

I too am looking into purchasing optics for my LMT. The link to Midway and from there Google to Counter Sniper optics gives me something called Crusader. When looking at their specs sheets, there is no mention of 'Made in USA', just US Government Property marks. As we all know, anyone can mark their scope to say what they want. I am just a little bit skeptical. I will wait to see what and where these are made.

Troy Industries says on their catalog that theirs is Made in USA. Just can't confirm that the one from Midway can say the same.

Take care,

Kelly (Cohibra45)

[jeffy]

I too am looking into purchasing optics for my LMT. The link to Midway and from there Google to Counter Sniper optics gives me something called Crusader. When looking at their specs sheets, there is no mention of 'Made in USA', just US Government Property marks. As we all know, anyone can mark their scope to say what they want. I am just a little bit skeptical. I will wait to see what and where these are made.

Troy Industries says on their catalog that theirs is Made in USA. Just can't confirm that the one from Midway can say the same.

Take care,

Kelly (Cohibra45)

It's the same optic. The Counter Sniper (CS) is the only optic I've seen that has a selectable a Green and Red illumination. The dimensions are almost identical as well. Although it seems CS does not lSpec. their optic so I've seen 1-4x22mm, 1-4x24mm and 1-4x28mm. It's also supposedly from Rochester NY. I don't know if it's assembled or actually constructed there though. The company won't say even when asked direct questions about it. You'll notice that Troy is more vague about the optic then CS is which is probably a good thing. What is 'Bertrillium-Zantitium'? Bertrillium is not a chemical compound and neither is Zantitium. It's supposed to be some type of lens coating but it could be anything since it's some TM. Then you have 'Proprietary rare earth/nitrogen gas purged, hard earth sealed'. What's that supposed to mean?

DarkOps Holding's marketing is clouded in mystery as well. Here's what they have said to someone who was trying to find out more info about the product. Notice the return email seems to be a private one and not a company one. Their website has been under construction ever since they started business in 2007.

DarkOps Holding is in MO and ships from a small warehouse in the middle of nowhere.

Subject: Re: 1x4 crusader questions
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:07:58 -0500
From: usafreedom@aol.com
Thanks for your purchase, I think you will be very happy with your scope for years to come! We have seen a couple counterfeit models coming out of Asia, and while cosmetically similar they are fewer in lens elements, have turrets that are of a different design and optically are a fraction of the ones coming from Rochester NY, the headquarters of CounterSniper USA. We use lenses of pure optical glass, not cheap "window glass" from the pacific rim. The asian ones we have seen are not coated, not gas purged and won't focus close up or beyond 200 yards. We believe our basic front plane design was copied by Norinco, the chinese arms manufacturer in the mid nineties, and aren't worried about cheap knock offs, but we are concerned about any that are engraved with our trademarks and passed off as stuff from Rochester. If you bought from Midway no need to worry. The normal retail for your 1-4 is appx 1100.00 dollars, if you paid less than that from Midway, you may have a contract designate or overun sold for less, but still brand new and one heck of a value. The mushy spots in the clicks are from mil spec mandated saltwater proof grease in the indexing pin path-this will sweep from the groove in time and doesn't affect accuracy. To replace the battery (cr2032 lithium button cell- any camera shop) unscrew the top of the reostat cover(the knob that turns the Illuminated reticle on) and replace the battery. The scope is a true one power, the peripheral distortion is normal keystoning, as with your eyes-(if you look at a tall building and it appears to get smaller at the top-off axis with any one power you will get this effect)-With optics at 1 power, we actually re-enlarge the image to preserve the normal 50mm field of view that your eyes have, and then zoom magnify for the stated distance. We would love to know how your match goes, make sure with your riflestock you can maintain a good cheek weld close up, as these optical designs requires you maintain proper eye-relief unlike our reflex sights. You will smoke the red-dot guys on the hundred yard section! Thanks for buying from us, we so appreciate you business, if you have thoughts on things we can do better, please let us know-should need repair, send it to us at Dark Ops Holdings www.darkopsholdings.com

From:usafreedom@aol.com

Hi *****, If you got it from Midway you have the real thing. You also got a deal. If it is unmarked it is designated Military-Sterile per MIL STD 130. It was originally allocated for a black project and would have been sold at civilian retail of $1099.00. Midway was given those at the overun price, and passed the savings on to you. If it has locking turrets, its one of ours, to date no one has knocked that off yet, the fakes have cheesy short turrets. The unit that you have has a double power reostat, ideal for daylight use. FYI, that power level will dazzle at night so make sure to use the level one illumination power setting if you use it in darkness. If the unit performs like it has in some theaters of war for the past few years, I think you will do well. The cross hair that you have makes the 100 yard section a snap. Keep an extra battery on hand in case the light gets left on for a few days. If the unit did for any reason go tits up, we will fix it or give you a new one.

Designated Military-Sterile per Mil STD 130 throws up a red flag. As per MIL STD 130, there is supposed to be a 2D Data Matrix bar code like what it found on the Trijicon TA01NSN according to this overview of the I found HERE.

MIL STD 130 Overview
MIL STD 130 requires that all qualifying end item deliverables, government furnished property in possession of contractors (PIPC), and legacy items must be marked with a machine readable 2D Data Matrix bar code. Whether you decide to use a durable polyester label or a direct part mark technology such as laser etch, dot peen, ink jet or chemical etch, the bar code must meet printing or marking specifications.

There just isn't enough hard information about the product to give me any confidence in it. So a search on the internet and you'll find more of the same.

I have emailed Sales at Troy. I have Emailed Technical at Troy. I have called and left messages to speak to someone who knows something about it, but no one has call me back.

Also consider this. Troy wants $599 for the optic with a Larue SPR mount. The SPR mount costs $195 by itself. So that makes the scope $404. Aurora Tactical is selling the scope now for $356. So if you have to have it, I'd get it there. I decided to pass on the optic. I don't have enough free cash to be spending it on marketing hype. If the product is as good they say it is then it should sell itself.

Do a search on Counter Sniper Crusader and you'll get a bunch of hits but nothing with anything solid. DarkOps Holding and Pyramid Marketing are only telling you what they want you to hear.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=352039
http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=342322
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=352560

[John Hwang]

I met the guys at Dark Ops 2 years ago at Shot. They told me the same thing about contract over-run and how they are able to get the price down so low. Whether that's true or just a marketing gimmick, I remember thinking the quality looked good at this price point. But with everything, you get what you pay for. I'd be hesitant to use it on a defensive weapon.

[jeffy]

I met the guys at Dark Ops 2 years ago at Shot. They told me the same thing about contract over-run and how they are able to get the price down so low. Whether that's true or just a marketing gimmick, I remember thinking the quality looked good at this price point. But with everything, you get what you pay for. I'd be hesitant to use it on a defensive weapon.

From what I've found others have echoed what you said. They look good but...

I forgot to mention, it's strange that Troy would choose this optic especially if you wouldn't use it on a defensive weapon.