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  1. #16
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    I think we are mostly past any issues with chrome lining, there are plenty of chrome lined barrels that are highly accurate.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialized Armament View Post
    Am I understanding this correctly?

    Barrels can't be chromed to a consistent thickness and this fact has a negative effect on accuracy. To negate this shortcoming, we made our barrels with tapered bores and doubled the thickness of the chrome which increases accuracy and triples the life of the barrel.

    The only science behind the tapered bore is the science of marketing. IMRO...
    I was given a link so I figured Iíd come over and respond.
    Looks like you guys pretty much have the concept. The bore gets slightly smaller as it moves to the muzzle end of the barrel.
    I did not come up with the concept and it is not new. So why have you not seen taper bores in the AR platform before?? Probably because using hammer forged barrels is a fairly new thing in the AR rifles. Taper bore is something that is only realistically done by the hammer forging process. The mandrel that is used to put the rifling in the barrel is slightly tapered and this leave the tapered dimension in the barrels as the forging machine beats the blank around the mandrel.
    So what does it offer you? Taper bore gives you a slight boost in velocity over a non-taper bore barrel and it help negate any potential accuracy issues caused by chroming the bore since it is not always a consistent thickness.
    Taper bore does not extend the life of the barrel our barrels last longer because they are hammer forged and made from a different spec material that was engineered for machine guns. Hammer forging work hardens the material and the chrome is thicker than a normal barrel. The barrel steel is the same used on the MAG58, 240, M249, MK46, and MK48 machine guns it is also the same barrel material and process used on the 1/2moa sniper rifles FN won the FBI contract with and that are still in service. The FN SPR sniper rifles use hammer forged hard chrome lined taper bore barrels to get Ĺ moa accuracy and this is the same barrel specs and processes I have done to my barrels.
    So who else uses this?
    Obviously FN, who has the time, money, and resources to do the research to find this type of barrel steel and proof out this type of process and specs. FN hands down manufactures the best machine guns in the world and there isnít even a close second in this field there isnít even any two companies you can combine that has as much institutional knowledge as they do in making beltfed machine guns.
    HK also taper bores their hammer forged barrels for all their rifles.
    So why do I use it?
    Well I didnít really think much about hammer forging and taper bore before I was sent to work doing combat systems development and operational testing for SOCOM. There I worked on several weapons programs one that used these barrels on one of the rifles we were testing. I got to observes millions of dollars worth of R&D and testing that was done and got to see hundreds of thousands of rounds run through these weapons and got to see firsthand that these barrels did indeed last allot longer and on a whole shoot better than standard button rifled barrels that were chrome lined. The difference was significant and I wondered why the hell no one made these barrels for the M4/AR rifles so I figured I would bring them to market myself. I have over 20 years of service and have shot out plenty of M4ís in my time and can with full confidence say this is a improvement Iíve seen it first hand.

    Thanks
    Monty

  3. #18
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  4. #19
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    I appreciate Monty stopping in also. His knowledge will certainly advance the thread and the forum in general.

    Technology that sets one company apart from another is typically heralded, worn like a badge of honor by those companies that use it just like Centurion. My suspicion continues simply becuase I was not able to find one instance of the companies mentioned that considered a tapered bore to be of enough value to even mention it on their website, in product guides or press releases.

    While I don't doubt that tapered bores exist, I'm not certain that muzzle velocity and accuracy are the reason. I believe that they are a result of a manufacturing requirement specifically for hammer forged barrels. That is to say the manufacturer didn't start out with with intent of a finished barrel with a tapered bore. The tapered bore is a result of a tapered mandrel. Why is the mandrel tapered? For the same reason a rifle cartridge case is tapered. So it can be extracted. An un-tapered mandrel would be extremely difficult to remove from the barrel.

    This is certainly theory on my part so I sent an e-mail off to an industry contact to get some additional information on hammer forging and tapered bore barrels.
    Last edited by Specialized Armament; 21 November 2010 at 07:08.
    Specialized Armament
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulosantos View Post
    Thanks for stopping by Monty.
    Yes, thank you Sir for taking the time to drop in.

  6. #21
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    Monty, thank you for serving and thank you for stopping by to clear this up!

    You're about to receive some of my hard-earned money, after reading about your uppers, I doubt I will be disappointed.

  7. #22
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    Coincidentally there is an article on tapered bores, or squeeze-bore rimfires as the subject of the article, the late Arthur Langsford, called them, in the January 2011 Guns magazine. It says that Langford experimented with barrels of .22 that gradually tapered to .17 caliber, that resulted increased penetration and velocity increases of 25 to 60 fps. It also mentions German designed tapered bore weapons, such as the Gerlich gun which had a flanged projectile that tapered from 42mm to 30mm. The article also states that tapered bores were largely abandoned due to the cost and complexity of manufacture. You can get a free digital download of the magazine here: http://www.gunsmagazine.com/

  8. #23
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    The mandrel is about 6in long and the barrels is dragged across the mandrel and beaten around it to form the rifling. Only the last 3in of the mandrels are tapered so only the 3 in of the barrel get the taper bore it is not across the whole bore. the rest of the barrel gets its forming from the first 3in of the mandrel so it is strait. I know it is not required to have the taper to form the rifling since I've spoke with Daniel Defense about their barrels and they said they do not taper bore they use a 6in strait mandrel.

    Even if the taper came for other reasons it has the ancillary benefits of a slight increase in velocity and helps with accuracy.

    Any of the processes used to rifle a barrel can yield excellent results or poor results it depends on the knowledge and attention to detail the shop takes while making them. I have visited the barrel shop in Herstal Belgium and in Columbia SC and can say I was extremely impressed with their barrels and processes every barrel get bore scoped and inspected at every stage of the manufacturing process. I truly believe they are some of the best barrels in the world and I have seen it prove itself out through all the testing I got to witness.

    Thanks
    Monty

  9. #24
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    Good info here. I need to work on my knowledge base concerning barrel making. This has been an interesting read for sure.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialized Armament View Post
    I appreciate Monty stopping in also. His knowledge will certainly advance the thread and the forum in general.

    Technology that sets one company apart from another is typically heralded, worn like a badge of honor by those companies that use it just like Centurion. My suspicion continues simply becuase I was not able to find one instance of the companies mentioned that considered a tapered bore to be of enough value to even mention it on their website, in product guides or press releases.

    While I don't doubt that tapered bores exist, I'm not certain that muzzle velocity and accuracy are the reason. I believe that they are a result of a manufacturing requirement specifically for hammer forged barrels. That is to say the manufacturer didn't start out with with intent of a finished barrel with a tapered bore. The tapered bore is a result of a tapered mandrel. Why is the mandrel tapered? For the same reason a rifle cartridge case is tapered. So it can be extracted. An un-tapered mandrel would be extremely difficult to remove from the barrel.

    This is certainly theory on my part so I sent an e-mail off to an industry contact to get some additional information on hammer forging and tapered bore barrels.
    Almost all of your custom match grade barrel makers will hand lap a slight taper from chamber to muzzle end. This is well known in the benchrest community to enhance accuracy. Some benchresters even "slug" the barrel to ensure the muzzle is the tightest spot in the barrel.

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