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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulosantos View Post
    I shoot EVERYTHING with both eyes open and it is ANNOYING AS HELL for me to have a FSB in my field of fiew.
    This is similar to my experience when I was using an EOTech with CCH BUIS and standard FSB. No matter how hard I concentrated, I could not get rid of the image of the iron sights while focusing on the target. I believe the combination of EOTech reticle, fixed BUIS and FSB and absolute co-witness, was simply too much in the FOV for me to try and sort through and process optically.

    I eliminated the CCH BUIS and went with a MATECH BUIS, which helped some, but not enough. The EOTech with its absolute co-witness and reticle design in combination with the FSB still was a distracter.

    The EOTech was sold and replaced with an Aimpoint mounted in a PRI mount. This combination of folding rear BUIS and single 4MOA dot mounted in a lower 1/3rd co-witness is much more agreeable with me. The FSB with this set-up is no longer an issue for me.

    I believe not every optic set-up can work the same for each shooter, and some shooters, regardless of time accumulated behind those optic set-ups, will still have issues.

  2. #17
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    I agree that both a fixed front and rear sight with an absolute cowitness is too much. The rear sight in that can actually block your view of the reticule, which is not the case with the FSB.
    WWW.TACTICALYELLOWVISOR.NET

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    It has less to do with durability and more to do with speed. In fact, I generally prefer a front AND rear fixed sight and is why I have lower-1/3 mounts for most of my Aimpoints.

    One of the things I include in my training is using the optic as a ghost ring with the FSB to get hits. In fact, I'm glad you reminded me as we're going to do that at our practice night next week now.

    The question I would have is why NOT have them in your field of view when they obstruct nothing at all? It's only annoying if you let it be annoying.
    I can do the same exact thing with a flip up. Matter of fact, I knew several SWAT guys when I was on the ERT Team that used to flip up the front flip up sight and use the Aimpoint or EOTech as a ghost ring just as you described.

    On a duty gun, most if the time you have to work with what you are issued. But on a personally owned gun, flip ups make all the sense. And as I already indicated, you can always leve them up if you want to. They also make more sense if you plan on swapping out optics for various reasons.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by oregonshooter View Post
    The difference is that those opinions came about by learning the lesson by using other methods/gear before hand. Opinions derived from negative experiences would be "lessons learned" in my book.

    Aragorn,
    What did you learn?
    I've learned that there is no absolute best in almost any area in terms of builds. What works for one person does not work for everyone else. Rail lengths, buffer weights, barrel profiles, and everything in between and beyond is subjective to the operator and what he/she is attempting to achieve. It can be preferential and mission specific at the same time. Say for instance you and a buddy are each rolling SBR's. You have a 12.5" BCM barrel with a 7" DD Omega Rail with a FSB, your buddy is running a 10.5" Noveske barrel with a TRX rail and folding front sight. Neither of you is wrong.

    What I really like about this sight is you have access to both information that IS preferential (and you learn why certain individuals run their set ups how they do) AND more hard data such as what is more likely to make a weapon fail, run more reliably, velocity thresholds, etc. The no BS reviews give us solid information that we wouldn't be able to ascertain ourselves without actually buying the product and running it hard.

    Perhaps the most important thing I've learned is that no amount of technical knowledge or theory is a substitution for actual training and practice, no matter your mission or set up.
    -One Nation, Under God

    -"The bad news is time flies. The good news is you're the pilot." ~ Michael Althsuler

  5. #20
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    RDS / co-wit,

    True Co-wit with a fixed FSB and flip up rear makes the most sense to me.
    - one cheek weld that is constantly being reinforced.
    - FSB leads you to the dot which is on top of it if the CW is correct, your eye will find the dot before the FSB if it's not.
    - ghost ring CQC BUIS if the dot fails, flip the rear when you have time for a more refined BUIS.
    - lower over bore scope offset helps with trajectory variances


    Aragorn,
    Well said. Everyone has their own way, I think the jist of this thread is to share what their way is and why from information gathered while learning here. What works for me is not what always what works for others.

    If guys do the work themselves, they might find that the guys posting their "opinions" have formed them through previous failures in training/gear. That's how I learn and form mine at least. I put my stuff on the clock and in 3Gun to test my theories, some use what they are issued in combat and MAKE it work. Is one more correct than the other?
    Last edited by oregonshooter; 27 December 2010 at 13:42.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oregonshooter View Post
    I put my stuff on the clock and in 3Gun to test my theories, some use what they are issued in combat and MAKE it work. Is one more correct than the other?
    I think the one that would be correct would be the one more relevant to you.

    As for my preferences, I would take a well balanced weapon over a slightly lighter one. Because of this I favor lighter weight barrel profiles and heavier stocks. If at all possible I pin the gas block. A 10" rail with an AFG out at the end is the sweet spot for me, any shorter and I prefer a vertical foregrip (I still use the thumb over the bore grip, but the closer my hand is to my body the more I prefer a steeper grip angle). If I could make only one modification to a reliable off the shelf rifle it would be to add a B.A.D. lever.

    In a build I think the most important consideration is the barrel, and the most important investment for any rifle is ammo and trigger time. Tweek as necessary.
    -One Nation, Under God

    -"The bad news is time flies. The good news is you're the pilot." ~ Michael Althsuler

  7. #22
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    I know there's a lot of disagreement about fixed vs. flip up sights and everyone must choose what works for them but I have to agree with rob_s that the technique he described works very well. Initially I thought fixed irons would get in the way but they don't. And if you're going to leave them up you might as well have a standard FSB and a chopped carry handle or LMT rear sight that's tough as nails.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
    I know there's a lot of disagreement about fixed vs. flip up sights and everyone must choose what works for them but I have to agree with rob_s that the technique he described works very well. Initially I thought fixed irons would get in the way but they don't. And if you're going to leave them up you might as well have a standard FSB and a chopped carry handle or LMT rear sight that's tough as nails.
    It depends on how and what you are using your AR for. If you set up your AR and the only thing you will ever put on it is irons and a red dot sight, then you set it up however you want because it is your rifle and you are the one that will be using it.

    But if you are like a lot of people who like to try different optics, then flip ups are the better choice and pretty much the only choice, especially the rear flip up. So it depends on what you are using your AR for and as long as you know what you want, you are right because it is your AR.

  9. #24
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    I was running a Larue fixed BUIS with my T1 and fixed FSB, but went to a rear flip up that I leave down after Dave Harrington pointed out that they do clutter up the SP in lower light. Having gotten comfortable with the setup already I though "eh how much though, probably not enough to matter" but I had to test it both ways and he was right. Big difference in FOV and ability to see with the rear flip up down instead of a fixed rear BUIS.

    If you run hard irons all the time with your dot, you own it to yourself to try it with a lowered rear BUIS. Do it in low and changing light conditions indoors especially.

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