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  1. #1
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    Brainstorming My First Rig

    Okay, a couple days ago I started a thread asking about a specific brand of gear and came to realize from some the of responses that I had jumped in way too quickly. So, here's a new one to focus on figuring out what I actually want and the best way of going about it.

    I'm a civilian. This will be my SHTF and fun rig.
    I know from the get-go I'm not a big fan of the "war belt". I like my first and second line gear to be integrated.
    I'd like to carry six AR15 magazines. Preferably in 3 pockets, 2 per pocket. I am open to other ideas, though.
    I'd like a canteen pouch and a medical pouch.
    I want the back of my 1st/2nd line gear to be smooth enough that I could carry a backpack over it. I want to be able to take the backpack on and off easily for traveling in vehicles, moving in confined areas, resting, etc.
    While I probably won't get rifle plates right away, I would like the ability to have lvl3 steel plates.
    Quick-ditch isn't an issue, not working in a maritime environment.
    As far as price point goes... I can save up more if I need to. Let's keep it under about $700 at the top end (including lvl3 steel plates, NOT including backpack).
    While weight is, of course, always a concern- My big hobby outside of firearms is backpacking, so carrying heavy loads through often precarious environments for long distances is not a foreign concept to me.

    I've noticed a couple ways of setting up gear. Seems there can either be a two-piece set up where there's a plate carrier and a chest rig over that. Or, a one-piece set up where pouches are attached directly to the plate carrier. From my untrained eyes, I can see advantages to both. It seems the two-piece would be a little more versatile. (For example, carry ammo without the armor, carry armor without the ammo.) But, there is that extra step of getting it on and off.

    The Eagle Industries products look pretty good. They seem to get good reviews, and are priced reasonably. However, I have not acquired any brand loyalties yet and am open to pretty much anything.

    Since I started looking into this stuff, I've changed my mind about half a dozen times.... feel free to tell me how wrong I am and the right way to do things.

    As of now, though... This is my most up-to-date proposed set up.

    $140 Eagle Plate Carrier Molle, Ranger Green. (How does sizing work on plate carriers?)
    $240 lvl 3 steel rifles plates. (Is bulletproofme.com reputable? Any better source?)
    $70 Eagle M4 Chest Rig, LE 6 Mag
    $50 Eagle Medical Pouch
    $50 Eagle Canteen Pouch

    I think the carrier with molle will be good to have, even if I do plan to use the chest rig. If I ever change my mind, I just buy an ammo pouch and I'm set.

    Suggestions? Comments? Criticisms?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by lamarbrog; 18 August 2011 at 08:43.

  2. #2
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    Uhm... bump?

  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    It is extremely hard to look at websites and know if something is going to work or not. I would suggest buying a dirt cheap chest rig first. Figure out what you don't like about it and go from there. I have a closet full of gear that I daydreamed a use for and after I had it I never used it again.

    ROB S has as his sig line on M4C "buy a 6920 and take a carbine class" I would suggest something similar for this as well.

    Chris

  5. #5
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    I recently had a chance to catch up with a buddy of mine, here's his website. I encourage you to take a good read and go from there. Are you planning to take any pistol/rifle/shotgun courses in the near future to give yourself and gear a workout? I find if you apply yourself in a 3 gun course, you'll find out quickly how some gear will fail. Good luck.

    http://03designgroup.com/

  6. #6
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    Don't plan on taking a carbine class any time soon... Maybe I'm close-minded, but most of these "instructors" I've encountered are just fools who want to show off how good they are at playing Rambo, and lack much real experience or knowledge. There are a few good ones, but they think they're worth way too much. Not paying anyone $300 for two days (not to mention driving/flying and ammo) so that he can look at me while I shoot.

    Of course, YMMV.

  7. #7
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    Then you are either encountering the wrong instructors or you are projecting your issues onto them.

    The reason you didn't get much of a response is because you went on and on without saying much of anything. You're looking for all of this gear with no frame of reference for it and not way to determine if you're making good choices or not. You have a whole bunch of theory in your list with no way of knowing if the theory is based in any reality.

    Get some instruction on the fundamentals and build your gear as needed and as your skillset and use grows. Otherwise you wind up looking like these kids.

    WWW.TACTICALYELLOWVISOR.NET

  8. #8
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    What's your deal? Nice inflaming picture.

    I guess this is what I get for admitting I am not very knowledgeable about a certain topic... I can come on here and get talked down to by some guy that took his first class in 2005, which happens to be the same year I was doing my first terminal ballistics research to get published in a nationally-distributed magazine. (I wouldn't hold such a late date of getting into a class against you, except for you seem to think it is the only way of being able to acquire knowledge.)

    Thought this was a good website with knowledgeable people I could bounce some ideas off of. For the most part that seems to be true, but I guess there's always that one guy that has to make a scene.

    Did I say your training classes are worthless? No, I didn't. I simply said that for me, I don't see them as being worth as much as they charge. Apparently that insults your manhood, though, since you like to take classes.

    I can test gear just fine on my own... I can shoot and move on my own. I can use cover and concealment on my own. I don't need some high-paid do-nothing for that. I can even go spend a weekend marching through the woods in full kit on my own. I don't need an instructor to help me with that. If you do, that's fine, more power to you... whatever it takes. It's not for me, though, and I don't appreciate the attitude from you just because we have different ideas about what helps us.

    But, I guess I'm the new guy... probably get banned for offending the old-timer because I don't want a "class".

  9. #9
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    No, if you get banned it will be because you are a douchebag.

    You ask for advice and two people say you need a frame of reference, and that a class or competition would come in handy first.

    You dismiss them out of hand.

    All the while insulting the people who you are asking for help.

    And if you think 20 years as a Delta operator (LAV) a few tours as a Force Recon Marine (Haley) or arguably the main character of a Hollywood movie based on actual events (Howe) don't know what they are talking about and just like to show off how cool they are, YOU, SIR, ARE A FUCKING IDIOT.

    Chris

  10. #10
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    You guys are reading a whole lot into this that I never said.

    I respect Vickers, I respect Haley, I respect Lamb. They're legit. They've been there and done that and know that they are talking about... but their classes are not cheap. And for every instructor like them, there's ten guys who spent a few years in the reserves 30 years ago, and know it all because they have an Olympic AR with an NC Star optic and some airsoft gear.

    I don't know what you guys expect... Just show up to a carbine class and clench one spare mag in my teeth, and wedge the other between my buttocks? If I'm going to take a class, I probably ought to have some way of carrying a spare magazine.

    I was trying to get some input on my proposed set up.... I can get something different later if I decide things need to be changed.

    Kind of like asking me to tell you what brand of car I like if I had never owned a car... sometimes you just have to try something out and see if it works for you, using the best information you have available. This is not my absolute first LBE... I've had a British M58 setup for a few years and have discovered it isn't exactly right for me. I'm trying to get my first that is new stuff, instead of some obsolete surplus harness.

    I'm sorry if this is so offensive... I can't imagine how it is. So far asking for some advice has resulted in nothing but a very aggressive response. I guess I'm more fond of helping each other with a friendly attitude, and not just belittling one another.

  11. #11
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    You never said what your previous set up was, what you found lacking or anything of the sort. That would have gone a long ways to us helping you.

    Why six mags?

    Why is a canteen necessary? Why not a bladder?

    I would suggest the chest rig and IFAK first.

    Run that however you plan on using this rig (I'm not sure what that is since you didn't mention it in the first post)

    I would imagine you would find six mags to be too much, I could be wrong though.

    Then I would get a low profile or MOLLE plate carrier and add the two together.

    I'm fond of hydration on my back for classes.

    Chris

  12. #12
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    My main advice to you would be to build slowly with a plan in mind (you have picked a good company for that) and not to dive in and buy all of it upfront.

  13. #13
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    Easy does it there Lamar.

    Your first statement came across as dismissing classes out of hand. Your second was more considered and we all certainly understand that money isn't easily come by.

    Nonetheless, you, along with many of us, don't know what you don't know. One of the things about quality classes and instructors is that they make you realize and work on what you couldn't have known in the first place (even in reading or watching instruction tapes) and improve what you already do know.

    You may disagree with me but I do believe that spending the money to take a good class gives you more returns than trying to find a good rig before taking the class. For my first class, I only got a couple of Wilderness AR pouches that I put on my everyday belt (a Wilderness one). I'm still not sure what a good rig would be like for me (and I'll be asking the question here soon enough) but I will approach it from what I know my needs are and what I've already learned in class.

    You wrote:"I don't know what you guys expect... Just show up to a carbine class and clench one spare mag in my teeth, and wedge the other between my buttocks? If I'm going to take a class, I probably ought to have some way of carrying a spare magazine. "
    You'd be surprised by the amount of learning that can be done during a class while carrying your spare mags in your pockets. Sure, it's not optimum but it can work fine.

    As to identifying what your needs are, ask yourself the following: is the rig meant to work with your regular concealed carry approach, is this for classes only and will have nothing to do with real life fighting, is it somewhere in between and if so how, or is it for something else entirely? Only you can answer those questions but once you have an idea of what your needs, the rest of us can chime in and tell you what has or hasn't worked, what does and doesn't fit your intent and needs.

  14. #14
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    I appreciate your calm, collected, and helpful response Wondering Beard and CCK. Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. I don't have any problem giving answers... I just am not always sure what the proper question is.

    In my first post, I mention that I am a civilian looking for a rig for "SHTF" (unlikely in my area... but whatever, can't be too prepared), but mostly for fun. I'm sorry if I'm failing to meet expectation here by not having any grand schemes... but this kind of falls into the "because I want it" category.
    I don't claim to be a "high speed, low drag operator". I'm mostly a collector, and I shoot occasionally to keep proficient, and as it was relevant to my employment. (I did some beginner handgun and beginner rifle instruction... Nothing too fancy, just basic shooting fundamentals.)

    I've carried 8+1 magazines in a chest rig in the past (British M58). It wasn't too bad... I could definitely manage it, but it was a little on the heavy side and I feel like 6+1 would be more reasonable, while still providing plenty of ammunition. Only four magazines just seems really light to me. If that works for you guys, that's great... but I just don't feel comfortable with four mags.

    I have experience with canteens vs. bladders from backpacking, and have been disappointed with bladders. I find a lot of them leak, even good ones after being used for a while. I find them annoying to keep clean, and have never really found them to be very easy to fill, or to treat with iodine. I also don't feel like I can monitor my water consumption as well... both for knowing I am
    drinking enough, but also knowing when I need to get serious about resupplying on water. I'm experienced enough in the outdoors that I don't "forget" to drink... which seems to be the main problem people have with canteens.
    If it matters, I love the wide mouth of Nalgene bottles compared to military-style canteens... If there is a molle pouch for a Nalgene-sized bottle, I'd be all over that.
    Whatever the form, I feel strongly about having water on my person... really easy to get into trouble fast without water.

    CCK, it seems you're in favor of a separate chest rig and plate carrier, is that correct? Why, if I may ask, do you like that instead of mounting gear directly to the plate carrier? I was originally leaning towards a two-piece rig... but am wondering if going one-piece might be more convenient to don and doff.

    Thanks for the input, guys.

  15. #15
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    I favor it because you can transition into the armor when you know better what you will want armor for. My best friend has a full PIG system with plates and cummerbund inserts and mag pouches and it incredibly well made and balances the weight very well, but I have a USPALM defender and a "possibles" bag.

    My intention was for HD/SHTF.
    Between the two of us who do you think can get there gear and get rolling faster?

    My buddy saw a great system on a website and decided that is what he needed without taking the baby steps to really KNOW, you know?

    I had had a chest rig before and determined it wasn't for me. But I didn't drop all the coin he did up front.

    Chris

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