Noveske 4 Coil or 5 Coil Extractor Spring?

[Leo77]

I see in Rob S.'s "New Comparison Chart of Commercial M4-Patern Carbines" that it says Noveske uses a 4 Coil Extractor Spring but I have heard from another knowledgable source that they use a 5 Coil Extractor Spring.
Does someone know for sure what Extractor Spring they use?
I see Colt ,LMT,Bravo Company all use the 5 Coil Springs.
Its hard to Imagine that Noveske would not also use a 5 Coil Spring.
Thanks for the feedback.

[Hmac]

I have over 5000 rounds through my Light Recce without a single FTE. I conclude that however many coils its extractor spring has, it's exactly the right number.

ETA: OMG! I pulled the extractor and now I find that it's a 4 coil spring! All this time I didn't realize my perfectly functioning Noveske didn't measure up on the chart!

[John Hwang]

The internet is so full of great information but we can get overloaded with it. I can always tell if I'm speaking with someone who has spent a lot of time researching information on the net. Most of it is very good, but sometimes people can over think things. If you truly understand how a DI system works, you see why manufacturers started using heavier springs & o-rings etc. As they started to shorten the barrel lengths and open up the gas ports, they needed better extraction.

If you are building a midlength or rifle length gas system, extra powered extraction is simply not needed. But because of the internet, most MFGs will use o-rings and heavier extraction springs so they have their bases covered.

PS. If you want to understand how the DI system works, POF homepage has a good video that shows it.

[MoxyDave]

You're right, there is a lot of conjecture on the 'net and it's easy to get overwhelmed with information.

I try to read articles by the folks who've "been there, done that" which seems to cut down on misinformation and conjecture.

DefenseReview has some good articles on springs in the M4 from Mike Pannone, someone with a great deal of experience:

http://www.defensereview.com/the-big...m4-unreliable/

http://www.defensereview.com/m4m4a1-...yre-our-fault/

http://www.defensereview.com/m4m4a1-...he-root-cause/

[Leo77]

I read those articles as well and I was just surprised to see that all the Top Ar-15 Companies(LMT,Colt,Braco co,etc) use a 5 coil Extractor Spring and Noveske dose not.(That is if they do not?)
I just wanted to know if Noveske uses a 4 coil or a 5 coil Extractor Spring and If they do not use a 5 coil Extractor Spring, Why dont they use the 5 Coil?
Hmac no reason to get nasty I was just trying to find an answer.

[Hmac]

I read those articles as well and I was just surprised to see that all the Top Ar-15 Companies(LMT,Colt,Braco co,etc) use a 5 coil Extractor Spring and Noveske dose not.(That is if they do not?)
I just wanted to know if Noveske uses a 4 coil or a 5 coil Extractor Spring and If they do not use a 5 coil Extractor Spring, Why dont they use the 5 Coil?
Hmac no reason to get nasty I was just trying to find an answer.

Yeah, sorry. Didn't mean to be nasty and I'm sorry you saw it that way. My bad.

Given my experience with 4-coil extractor springs, I view the concern about 4 vs 5 coils as irrelevant and classic "chart-thinking". I have the greatest confidence that if John Noveske thought 5-coil extractor springs provided some advantage to the functionality of the rifles that he builds and stakes his considerable reputation on, he would make that very trivial switch (if he hasnt' already).

[Leo77]

I agree with you Hmac their must be a reason if Noveske uses the 4 coil instead of the 5 coil spring but I know that LMT has a reason for using the 5 coil spring.
Read the first article from Defense Review that Moxydave posted about Reliable Carbines and you will see why a most of the Top Tier AR companies use 5 coil springs.
With a Stronger Buffer and Spring and a upgraded 5 Coil Spring he ran his AR up to 2400 rounds without cleaning or oiling.
Im not sure if Noveske uses a 4 or a 5 Coil Spring, I have conflicting answers. I own a 300Blk Noveske.

[Leo77]

I just read on Noveske's Question and Answer Site that they use a 4 Coil Spring because they say the Extra Strength Extractor Springs can cause to much Extractor Tension.
This is interesting because someone that I recently spoke with at Noveske said they use the 5 Coil Extractor Spring.
Im just looking for a straight answer.
If Noveske dose not use the 5 Coil Spring, why dont they.? Why Does LMT,Colt and Bravo Company use the 5 Coil Spring?

[todd.k]

We use a standard rifle spring and O-ring. The O-ring adds the needed extractor tension with a longer service life than the spring alone, while the extra power springs can have a reduced service life.
An extra power spring with an O-ring can be too much extractor tension.

Counting coils when springs are made to a spring weight spec can lead to confusion. Also keep in mind that not all extra power/5 coil springs are made equal, I would run the newest Colt carbine extractor spring if I didn't want to run the rifle spring and O-ring.

[Ryo]

You realize that you can't compare 5 coil springs since each brand may have a different strength. Possibly their 4 coil has the same amount of energy as another brand of 5 coil springs.

[iron x]

Forget the springs, just shoot the rifle and be done with it.

[Stickman]

We use a standard rifle spring and O-ring. The O-ring adds the needed extractor tension with a longer service life than the spring alone, while the extra power springs can have a reduced service life.
An extra power spring with an O-ring can be too much extractor tension.

Counting coils when springs are made to a spring weight spec can lead to confusion. Also keep in mind that not all extra power/5 coil springs are made equal, I would run the newest Colt carbine extractor spring if I didn't want to run the rifle spring and O-ring.

Todd- Once again I appreciate your input, thanks.

[Leo77]

Thanks Todd
Thats the answer I was looking for!!