Engraving?

[tnronin]

Not a long time poster and I'm a major novice on the SBR stuff. I recently received my tax stamp for my AR. I didn't engrave it or anything. I can't remember the form number, but why engrave when you can just use the correct form? Sorry this is brief, I'm on my tablet.

Mitch

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

[Hatter]

I assume when you say "correct form" you are referring to either a Form 1 or Form 4...

All SBR's need to be engraved regardless of which form is used. If you are building the SBR (assembling the upper and lower once the short barrel is installed) you'll need to fill out a Form 1 - The application to make and register a firearm and the weapon must be engraved with your information (Name/LLC Name, Location). If you purchased the SBR as a complete weapon, from Noveske for example, you'll need to fill out a Form 4 - Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration. This weapon will be engraved by Noveske to meet the requirements.

A good search here will show a lot of threads on engraving...

[tnronin]

Hatter that is what I don't get. I have the paperwork in and back from the ATF. I did not engrave anything. We gave them the info for the ar15 only. Please don't call BS on me. I can take pics, I'm not a mall ninja, and I'm not trolling. The shop I deal with does these rifles all the time. I guess I need to dig the paperwork out of the pistol grip. I'm nothing special and I don't get why people don't just do what I've done.

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

[tnronin]

Ok pulled the paperwork. I used a form 1 and listed my rifle as a collectors item. Application made by individual. Like I said our shop doest this all the time.

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

[Hatter]

HI'm nothing special and I don't get why people don't just do what I've done.

Because it is illegal to possess the NFA item without the paperwork AND the engraving. You can purchase the AR15 receiver and use this to become an SBR. In all honesty the "NFA item" would be the barrel and you do not need the paperwork to purchase this.

If you're not going to bother engraving the weapon, why did you bother obtaining the tax stamp?

[tnronin]

Huh? Man, typing on a tablet sucks. My response came back too harsh. I was informed, and I guess the ATF agrees that the manufacturing markings are sufficient. I questioned the shop when we did the paperwork. I was skeptical as well quite frankly. But sure as snot it came back approved. Now I realize you are more knowledgeable in these matters BUT it seems to me the ultimate decision on this matter is with the ATF. Initially I was offended by your implication that I was breaking the law. But I realize that sometimes things can be confusing when stated on the internet.

Back to your statement about getting the stamp AND engraving. I didn't because the ATF said I didn't have to (by approving it). Are we just trying to keep the engravers in business or making even MORE unnecessary red tape for us to be tangled in.


Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

[Hatter]

If you filed a Form 1, you are the manufacturer of the SBR. You were the one that assembled the lower and upper to create the weapon. This means it needs to be engraved with the information that matches the Form 1. This is the law. The paperwork can be submitted, approved and returned with a tax stamp without the ATF's knowledge of any engraving what-so-ever. These two things are COMPLETELY independent of one another and it is your responsibility as a firearm owner to read and understand the NFA rules and regulations.

If you had filed a Form 4, and the manufacturer sold you a complete SBR they would have markings that sufficiently fill this requirement.

I just think you are getting incorrect information from your shop.

[Hmac]

Just having the Form 1 approved doesn't not automatically make the weapon or the maker in compliance with the law. Whatever the paperwork, that doesn't relieve an SBR "maker" of following the regulation that requires that the maker engrave his name/city/state on the weapon.

[Rodman24]

Hatter and Hmac's comments are correct. The engraving is necessary. Try Ident Marking Services they do great work. http://www.identmarking.com

[todd.k]

With a Form 1 you are the "Maker" of an NFA firearm.

27CFR479.102

(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer,
or maker of a firearm, must legibly
identify the firearm as follows...

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...cfr479.102.pdf

[Hmac]

Huh? Man, typing on a tablet sucks. My response came back too harsh. I was informed, and I guess the ATF agrees that the manufacturing markings are sufficient. I questioned the shop when we did the paperwork. I was skeptical as well quite frankly. But sure as snot it came back approved. Now I realize you are more knowledgeable in these matters BUT it seems to me the ultimate decision on this matter is with the ATF. Initially I was offended by your implication that I was breaking the law. But I realize that sometimes things can be confusing when stated on the internet.

Back to your statement about getting the stamp AND engraving. I didn't because the ATF said I didn't have to (by approving it). Are we just trying to keep the engravers in business or making even MORE unnecessary red tape for us to be tangled in.


Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

Yeh, see, this is erroneous thinking. The ATF says you HAVE to engrave it..it's mandated in the relevant federal regulations under the National Firearms Act. The manufacturer of your rifle would be the company that manufactured the lower receiver and you'll see that they have already engraved (or stamped) their name/city/state, as per the same law. Once that lower is registered as an SBR with the NFA via a Form 1 and tax paid, you now have the option to "make" the SBR. As the "maker", you also have to engrave your name/city/state.

[tnronin]

Ok so NOW I need to engrave it? Or what now?

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

[Hmac]

In order to be in compliance with the law, you would need to go back and have the rifle engraved with your name/city/state. The letters need to be larger than 1/16th inch and at least .003 inch deep and can be engraved on the barrel, upper, or lower receiver and visible without any disassembly of the rifle. The two most popular firearms engravers tend to be either Ident Marking in Texax or Orion Arms in Minnesota. For some engraviing locations on the rifle, they may require disassembly - best to call first or at least check our their websites. Some local trophy shops might be able to do it, but be careful about that. One nice thing about Orion or Ident is that they routinely black the letters after engraving.

[CarlosDJackal]

Ok so NOW I need to engrave it? Or what now?

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

You need to pay attention to what these guys are telling you.

- If YOU registered the receiver as an SBR you should have an ATF FORM 1. This means that YOU are the SBR manufacturer and must engrave it with: (a) The Manufacturer's name (THAT WOULD BE YOU) (b) the City and (c) the State in which the SBR was "manufactured" (THIS WOULD YOU BE YOUR HOME CITY and STATE). The engraving must meet the requirements for height, depth and location on the receiver to be legal. Not doing so would be in violation of the posted regulations.

- If you purchased an already registered receiver (IE: it was registered as an SBR by the manufacturer or someone before you purchased it) then you should have an ATF FORM 4. You will not have to engrave the receiver since the "manufacturer" (whoever that may be) should have already done so.

I don't know how much clearer I can make this but good luck!!

[CarlosDJackal]

In order to be in compliance with the law, you would need to go back and have the rifle engraved with your name/city/state. The letters need to be larger than 1/16th inch and at least .003 inch deep and can be engraved on the barrel, upper, or lower receiver and visible without any disassembly of the rifle. The two most popular firearms engravers tend to be either Ident Marking in Texax or Orion Arms in Minnesota. For some engraviing locations on the rifle, they may require disassembly - best to call first or at least check our their websites. Some local trophy shops might be able to do it, but be careful about that. One nice thing about Orion or Ident is that they routinely black the letters after engraving.

I have to make a correction here. The ATF came out with a letter that specifically debunked the myth that one can engrave the barrel or the upper receiver OF AND AR-15 to meet the NFA standards. it has to be done on the registered item (IE: lower receiver of an AR-15).

If the upper receiver is the registered item (IE: SCAR), then this would be acceptable but not the barrel (a part that can easily be replaced). Besides, barrels wear out with use so why would you want to spend all that money to engrave your barrel in the first place?

ADDED: +1 On Orion Arms as an engraver. I've used them twice and am getting ready to send them a third receiver.