Barrel questions

[fishrl]

I am building an SBR and have a couple of questions:

I am trying to decide between a Noveske chrome lined m249 barrel and the stainless barrel. The two issues I'm having are:
1. What is the difference in accuracy potential between the two...and I don't do well with "not much" or "still combat accurate". I don't cook because I can't figure out what a pinch is...if you want me to use a tenth of a tablespoon, then say that and I'll get something that can measure that.

2. The M249 barrel seems to only come in the NATO chamber. I understand that you can shoot 223 in a 556 chamber, but not vice-versa. You can do the same with the MOD 0 chamber, but it is "Designed" for using both. Is there an accuracy difference between the MOD 0 and the NATO.

I am looking at using a 10.5 inch barrel with a piston because eventually it will go supressed. What do you think of this barrel length as apposed to 11.5 or 12.5? I already have 14.5 and see no need to have two of the same thing and I find it unwieldy clearing buildings/houses.

Thanks in advance.

[Boltgun]

see the bold below


I am building an SBR (so you are not building a match rifle) and have a couple of questions:

I am trying to decide between a Noveske chrome lined m249 barrel and the stainless barrel. The two issues I'm having are:
1. What is the difference in accuracy potential between the two...and I don't do well with "not much" or "still combat accurate". I don't cook because I can't figure out what a pinch is...if you want me to use a tenth of a tablespoon, then say that and I'll get something that can measure that.

Stainless barrels are typically more accurate. The chrome lining robs most chromoly steel barrels of the accuracy....by a large amount? not really, but they are not as accurate as a stainless barrel. My experience with stainless is primarily match rifles, although I have had a noveske stainless SBR barrel and liked it enough. But you are using this in an SBR. This isn't for shooting for score at 400 yds. If you want that, then go to 16-18 inch barrels.

2. The M249 barrel seems to only come in the NATO chamber. I understand that you can shoot 223 in a 556 chamber, but not vice-versa. You can do the same with the MOD 0 chamber, but it is "Designed" for using both. Is there an accuracy difference between the MOD 0 and the NATO.

You would have to set it up right to gauge this. A bench rest type set-up would be a better test, once again you are talking about an SBR - I presume that you are using for fighting purposes based on your comment below(HD/self defence/etc) In the end, either barrel will serve you well. If you are going to run the barrel hard for extended periods then go with the M249 barrel.

I am looking at using a 10.5 inch barrel with a piston because eventually it will go supressed. What do you think of this barrel length as apposed to 11.5 or 12.5? I already have 14.5 and see no need to have two of the same thing and I find it unwieldy clearing buildings/houses.

I would love a std AR barrel in 12.5. Not as hard on the components as a 10.5 and still not too long to become cumbersome.
Boltgun

[fishrl]

Thanks for the input. I have had a really hard time firuring this one out. I know just enough to confuse myself and make decisions impossible. It sounds like the M249 will meet my needs. I have not been able to find the m249 barrel in 12.5 inch. Originally, I was looking at 12.5, but then decided to go with a piston (Adams Arms) and thought that as long as I was going short, I might as well not play around. I like the idea of 12.5 because I can get a longer ff tube and give myself a little further out hand position on the barrel (I'm 6'3 with gorrila long arms...unfortunatley they are not gorrila strong). If I go stainless, I will probably go 12.5 inch. I am leaning heavily toward the m249. I do a lot of realatively fast paced shooting (when I can afford it) and think that the longevity will be worth it. I will use it as an all around rifle, but pin point accuracy is not my gaol. I have been through SWAT, advanced SWAT, and CQM schools and that is the type of use this will most likely see (schools and practice). I also intend on fielding it as a competition rifle when poossible (went to my first 3gun today). I have other rifles if I need them for something specific, so if the m249 in 10.5 or 12.5 can hold 2 to 3 inches at 100 yards, that is would be enough. I have a POF 14.5 that I love the idea of, and it's super accurate, but I can't wrap my hand around the handgaurd, so I never shoot it.

Is a 10.5 any tougher on components than any other carbine length gas system barrel even a 14.5 with same length gas system?

I decided piston for gas blowback and cleaning reasons.

[markm]

I would love a std AR barrel in 12.5. Not as hard on the components as a 10.5 and still not too long to become cumbersome.
Boltgun

Agreed. 11.5 is good too...12.5 is optimal.

And forget the piston. Why introduce a bunch of problems into the equation? I suspect you've heard/read some of the nonsense marketing propaganda from the piston salesmen.

There's nothing wrong with direct gas. Keep the bolt group wet with Froglube and it'll run indefinitely.

[Stickman]

Is a 10.5 any tougher on components than any other carbine length gas system barrel even a 14.5 with same length gas system?

I decided piston for gas blowback and cleaning reasons.

Dear SWAT Monkey,

Dump the piston idea, go with the 12.5, enjoy the benefits, and don't worry about a SS barrel as you aren't going to shoot it well enough to see the differences. If you were loading your own ammo and were a couch sniper, it would be a different story, but if you were a sniper you would be using a fork and knife and eating like a gentleman at the dinner table.

All trash talking and humor aside, the 12.5 gives you longer service life for your can, and is more gentle on the components. While drinking beer with John (Noveske) and kicking back with him, we got on the subject of barrel lengths. His comment was that if he could only have one AR15, it would be with a 12.5" barrel. Its got enough velocity to do most things, is short enough to be maneuverable, and is highly reliable. I can find no argument with his logic.

Stay safe brother!

[fishrl]

Why is my life so hard? After reading your responses I could not ignore the obvious, 12.5 m249 is the barrel for what I'm going to do. Unfortunately, I can't find one. No problem finding the 10.5, but that is no longer on my shopping list. Now that you guys have guided my decision, I have to find what I want all over again.

I've read a lot about pistons and bought the POF a while back. I have had no problem with it (other than the MASSIVE fore-end), have out shot everyone at one of the schools with it and it never hick upped. The reason I am interested in it is because I have watched several guns go down in a school with only a 500 round count. It only took a couple drops of oil to get them back up, but they went down and the piston did not. Of the three AR's I own personally, it is the most accurate. I understand Noveske and many others are adamantly opposed to them. I am just smart enough to be able to accept good advice that I don't want to hear, but I put a premium on personal experience. I have decided to get a switch block and a piston and run them in 500 round increments to see what happens.

Stick, I am buying a Dillon 650 with my tax return...and trying to get in to a sniper school or get our officer that has been through military sniper school to teach me. Reloading...yet another thing I don't know enough about but I did the math and I shoot enough to make it cost effective.

Thank you all for your help.

[Aragorn]

Your POF is more accurate than your other AR's almost certainly due to the fact that it has a Rock Creek barrel. Not because it's a piston. The Noveske barrel you've chosen ought to perform similarly, or even better.

[Gator]

Hav you tried calling centurion arms? They offer the same m249 grade barrel in 12.5. Just in a different profile under the handguards. Both brands are top notch and reported to be the most accurate CL barrels around.

[TehLlama]

I've got Centurion and Noveske hardware - comparable, meaning they're both great. If you want to wait for the Noveske, you can get it, especially since they do produce the pretties complete uppers off their MUR's, if aesthetics matter.
Anybody adamantly anti-noveske hasn't shot one, or done the math to realize that even a $200 more expensive barrel gets lost in the cost of actually shooting the thing over time. Also, John has one of the most concise statements of why the piston isn't needed even for suppressed SBR applications.