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  1. #16
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    OMG, now it is just getting silly. The guy already apologized. I think everyone I getting carried away now. Just let it go already.

  2. #17
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    Here is the apology from Jerry Tsai for anyone who missed it.
    I’d like to address the comments regarding what I wrote in the MP7A1 article in RECOIL issue 4. First and foremost, I’d like to apologize for any offense that I have caused with the article. With the benefit of hindsight, I now understand the outrage, and I am greatly saddened that it was initiated by my words. Especially since, I am an unwavering supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights. I’ve chosen to spend a significant part of both my personnel and professional life immersed in this enthusiasm, so to have my support of individuals’ rights called into doubt is extremely unfortunate. With that said, I retract what I wrote in the offending paragraph within this article. It should have had been presented with more clarity.

    In the article, I stated some information that was passed on to me about why the gun is not available for civilian purchase. By no means did I intend to imply that civilians are not responsible, nor do we lack the judgment to own such weapons, if I believed anything approaching this, clearly I would lead a much different life. I also mentioned in the article that the gun had no sporting purpose. This again, was information passed on to me and reported in the article without the necessary additional context. I believe everything published in RECOIL up to this point (other than this story), demonstrates we clearly understand and completely agree that guns do not need to have a sporting purpose in order for them to be rightfully available to civilians. In retrospect, I should have presented this information in a clearer manner. Although I can understand the manufacturer’s stance on the subject, it doesn’t mean that I agree with it.

    Again, I acknowledge the mistakes I made and for them I am truly sorry.

    Sincerely,
    Jerry Tsai
    Editor
    RECOIL

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by landshark View Post
    Its interesting to see some of the big names that have dropped their advertising, Silencerco, ITS Tactical, and now......Magpul Industries Corp.

    Also Panteao Productions (No link, found out through an e-mail), Haley Strategic, and Mega Arms

    Manufacturers will do what they think needs to be done based on the feedback they receive. RECOIL made a mistake, and it is going to hurt them pretty bad for awhile. I've got no doubt they can make changes and come back again, but its going to be rough for them.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo_Santos View Post
    OMG, now it is just getting silly. The guy already apologized. I think everyone I getting carried away now. Just let it go already.
    Welcome to America, land of having to take offense to something even though you weren't personally wronged and ensuring everyone knows about it. One of two things happened here. Either he a.) let slip a comment he truly believes and is just trying to CYA, or b.) made a comment he in no way intended to be taken as it was. In either scenario, blowing up a facebook page has zero meaning. If you're that offended, stop purchasing the magazine and move on. I'd be willing to bet a large portion of those people freaking out aren't even regular purchasers of this publication. To take it a step further, how many blow up the facebook pages of those that openly desire nothing less than to end civilian ownership of any firearms? Anyone know someone who got onto John Leguizamo's page when he outright blamed the Aurora theatre shooting on public ownership of guns? Doubtful. The truly anti-gun populace is left alone and quietly chastised, while we eat those that claim to be our own. Simply brilliant.

    I take more issue with the companies landshark linked to. If you want to pull your sponsorship, more power to you. It's your capital to do with as you please. To do so in such a dramatic public fashion strikes me as the "Hey, look at me! Did I do good?" attitude of that guy we all work with. In my opinion a more appropriate response would have been to quietly pull your financial backing and left well enough alone. All parties would have known the support wasn't there soon enough, either through lack of advertisements or outright implosion of the publication.

    ETA: I do understand those companies have a bottom line to protect, and that factors into the company responses. I'd just like to see matters handled just a bit more like grown ups. Yelling "you big poop head" when you could just remove yourself from the situation doesn't sit well with me.
    Last edited by csmith; 10 September 2012 at 18:18.
    C. Smith

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by csmith View Post
    Welcome to America, land of having to take offense to something even though you weren't personally wronged and ensuring everyone knows about it. One of two things happened here. Either he a.) let slip a comment he truly believes and is just trying to CYA, or b.) made a comment he in no way intended to be taken as it was. In either scenario, blowing up a facebook page has zero meaning. If you're that offended, stop purchasing the magazine and move on. I'd be willing to bet a large portion of those people freaking out aren't even regular purchasers of this publication. To take it a step further, how many blow up the facebook pages of those that openly desire nothing less than to end civilian ownership of any firearms? Anyone know someone who got onto John Leguizamo's page when he outright blamed the Aurora theatre shooting on public ownership of guns? Doubtful. The truly anti-gun poulace is left alone and quietly chastised, while we eat those that claim to be our own. Simply brilliant.

    I take more issue with the companies landshark linked to. If you want to pull your sponsorship, more power to you. It's your capital to do with as you please. To do so in such a dramatic public fashion strikes me as the "Hey, look at me! Did I do good?" attitude of that guy we all work with. In my opinion a more appropriate response would have been to quietly pull your financial backing and left well enough alone. All parties would have known the support wasn't there soon enough, either through lack of advertisements or outright implosion of the publication.
    LOL. Exactly. Those companies are taking advantage of the situation and trying to make themselves look better by separating themselves from RECOIL and trying to win over more customers. In the end, I guess that any publicity is good publicity. I just think it is complete waste of time to get bent out of shape about the comment.

  6. #21
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    Here is another way to look at things. When the next issue of RECOIL comes out, the Presidential election will have been decided. We could very well be facing a ban on weapons the likes of which we have never seen, and by no stretch do I think it is over for Obama.

    If he made gas prices drop to $2.50 or $2 a gallon before the election through some miracle, I think he would win in a landslide.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo_Santos View Post
    LOL. Exactly. Those companies are taking advantage of the situation and trying to make themselves look better by separating themselves from RECOIL and trying to win over more customers. In the end, I guess that any publicity is good publicity. I just think it is complete waste of time to get bent out of shape about the comment.
    Agreed. People are getting way too pissed off about Jerry's comment. While I disagreed with what he said, it in no way made me want to stop reading the rest of the issue. It was not the first time, nor will it be the last time that have been "offended" by a writer's comments. But guess what? Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion last time I checked. Seems too many people are all about supporting freedom of speech, until they find it personally offensive.

    While I respect the companies that have made their decision to pull advertisements from RECOIL, I also thought that the posts on Facebook/Websites of their intention to do so, was simply an effort to "make themselves look good" to their loyal customers/fans. If nobody raised a stink about the MP7A1 article, would any of these companies even brought it up? Doubtful.

    As a firearms enthusiast and combat veteran, there's plenty of hardware that I wish I could get my hands on as a civilian, but can't. Would I love to have my own personal M240B? Absolutely! Would I ever have a use for it? No. I am well over the fact that there are many weapons that I could never legally own. Like Stickman pointed out, our 2nd amendment rights could be infringed upon in the future. Be content with what you have and are allowed to own now. Don't get bent on a weapon that the BATFE says you CAN'T have, or somebody who thinks you SHOULDN'T have. Bottom line, HK only makes the select fire version, deal with it.

    That's my personal opinion about the matter. Take it as you will.
    -Los

    "I like my weapons like I like my women, slightly dirty, and well lubed."

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlosi762 View Post
    Agreed. People are getting way too pissed off about Jerry's comment. While I disagreed with what he said, it in no way made me want to stop reading the rest of the issue. It was not the first time, nor will it be the last time that have been "offended" by a writer's comments. But guess what? Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion last time I checked. Seems too many people are all about supporting freedom of speech, until they find it personally offensive.

    I don't think anyone in the AR15 or possibly even the tactical world disagree with what he said, but I would be interested in seeing how many people OUTSIDE of our little slice of heaven would be enraged to the same degree with what is being done. Duck hunters? Deer hunters? Trap & skeet shooters? Bullseye?

    I invite anyone with dissenting view to post, no one is going to jump all over you or name call here.

    Even if your views don't dissent, and you fall on the side of people who want RECOIL closed down, I'm interested in hearing why you think it should be, or why it would be beneficial to the firearm community.

    Thanks.

  9. #24
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    I posted one comment on a Facebook post over this issue. There, I expressed my intention to resist having a knee-jerk reaction to the whole thing. I imagine there are probably many in our community who have done the same; but because of that, you won't read posts from them countering the rest. Like me, they are sitting back and thinking about it all for a while...my first reaction was simply deep disappointment.

    What may hurt Jerry (and RECOIL) the most is the fact that his (apparent) lack of understanding of the law in this case has hurt his credibility. A simple explanation of current law could have completely replaced the comments he made: "The MP7A1 is a select fire weapon produced post 1986. As such, it cannot be sold to any civilian based on current US law." - period. It seems pretty clear to me that instead, Jerry simply regurgitated a line of reasoning that H&K has a reputation for using; and probably conveyed to Jerry when he was conducting interviews to write the article.

    It's even more disappointing to read a bunch of "pile-on" comments on Facebook and elsewhere from people about how RECOIL was nothing more than a fashion magazine and a rag to begin with. I'm confident that most of these people probably liked RECOIL, but have now chosen to appear hard-core by hitting it while it's down. I believe that RECOIL was a great concept for a magazine with potential to attract more citizens to our numbers as firearms enthusiasts.

    I'm most disappointed by the fact that this whole mess overshadows what this particular issue meant to some people in the industry that I have a great deal of respect for.
    Last edited by TripleBravo; 11 September 2012 at 16:25.

  10. #25
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    Stick,

    You never fail to reinforce the good with your thoughtfulness and perspective. I do not post much but read often. Without being obsequious, you are cogent sir.

    RFB

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    I totally agree. All of the gun owners who have now launched a campaign against RECOIL magazine and its advertisers are doing more harm than anything Jerry Tsai could have ever done had he been the anti-gun devil himself.

    The words of Patrick Henry come back now, louder and more meaningful than ever. "Let us trust God, and our better judgment to set us right hereafter. United we stand, divided we fall. Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs.”

  11. #26
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    Stick-

    A little confused by your last post. Were you inferring few people in the AR-15 world disagree with Jerry? Or would disagree with what I said?
    -Los

    "I like my weapons like I like my women, slightly dirty, and well lubed."

  12. #27
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    I find it interesting to compare such a comment from the editor and his stance on civilian ownership of the HK to this ad in September's American Rifleman. While I am not a huge Remington fan, they seem to realize that citizens help to keep this land free. I'm sure there's some apples vs oranges here, but I find some irony in it quite frankly.


  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlosi762 View Post
    Stick-

    A little confused by your last post. Were you inferring few people in the AR-15 world disagree with Jerry? Or would disagree with what I said?
    You have my apology if I inferred that I disagreed with you. I should have made them two different comments, but I tend to write the way I talk and put things together at times.

    For clarity, I don't think anyone agrees with what Jerry said, or at least not anyone in the AR15 community. If you said the same thing at a hunting trade show, I think you would find more acceptance. I've met plenty of hunters who think the AK and AR15 owners are screwing up their chances of long term gun ownership.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by triplebravo View Post

    A- It seems pretty clear to me that instead, Jerry simply regurgitated a line of reasoning that H&K has a reputation for using; and probably conveyed to Jerry when he was conducting interviews to write the article.

    B- I believe that RECOIL was a great concept for a magazine with potential to attract more citizens to our numbers as firearms enthusiasts.

    C- I'm most disappointed by the fact that this whole mess overshadows what this particular issue meant to some people in the industry that I have a great deal of respect for.
    Sorry for the edit on my reply, but its easier for me to reply this way.

    A- Sounds like you are familiar with the HK sale pitch and HK hype. I don't think most other people are. It is well known if you deal with certain HK entities that this is their typical line. "We are HK, we are too special, no one is worthy, we make exceptions only for LE and MIL". This is fostered even more so when the reps are all LE/MIL FAGs (Former Action Guys). No offense to my retired bothers, I'll be one of you too some day.

    B- I don't think its over for RECOIL, I think they will work through it. I could be wrong, but I think they still have enough support, They are tied into an audience that is larger than just the ARFCOM/ M4C crowd. I DO think they need to restructure and take care of somethings.

    C- This has become an opportunity for some people to try to max exposure by reaping in the failure of others.

    I'm writing something official as a reply to something else, I'm not sure it will get published or not, but I'll post it if it does. How is that for vague?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSauce View Post
    I find it interesting to compare such a comment from the editor and his stance on civilian ownership of the HK to this ad in September's American Rifleman. While I am not a huge Remington fan, they seem to realize that citizens help to keep this land free. I'm sure there's some apples vs oranges here, but I find some irony in it quite frankly.

    I don't see it that way when they make it clear it is a sporting weapon. I see a cool title, covered by a plausible line of defense in case they are attacked for it.

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