Latest issue of RECOIL magazine had an interesting statement regarding the MP7A1....

[TangoSauce]

That's where the apples vs oranges comes to play, but I still find the overall perspective between the two to be coming at the overarching debate from quite different angles. Again, if we go back to some of the comments made earlier in the thread, you can argue that you're pro 2A and still support an AWB. I see nothing in the Constitution limiting the citizens rights to defend themselves, their family, or this country. I will no longer support RECOIL with that editor. Perhaps he misspoke, and that happens. However, in his apology statement he tried to place the blame on HK instead of manning up. If he would have stopped after the first paragraph, I could be more on board with your guys sentiments.

[Paulo_Santos]

I will no longer support RECOIL with that editor. Perhaps he misspoke, and that happens. However, in his apology statement he tried to place the blame on HK instead of manning up. If he would have stopped after the first paragraph, I could be more on board with your guys sentiments.

I don't think you are understanding his apology. He is just being honest. He wrote exactly what HK told him and at the time when he wrote it, he didn't realize how many people were going to be offended. Which echoes what Stick was saying about HK.

Imagine you are writing an article and the company/manufacturer tells you something and you write it. You later realize that what you wrote just offended the majority of your audience. That's what happened here.

[TangoSauce]

I do not see him attributing those comments to HK until the slimy hands line. It reads to me that he is agreeing with them, and that he is trying to use the regurgitation of their talking points that he used to write the article as his scapegoat. Perhaps I am mistaken of his intent in the article, but I still believe that even if he was knowingly writing what HK's perspective is on the MP7A1 then he should have voiced his disagreement. Nonetheless, RECOIL has praised HK since issue 1. I guess I'm skeptical of his intent based on how I've interpreted the article.

[mlosi762]

You have my apology if I inferred that I disagreed with you. I should have made them two different comments, but I tend to write the way I talk and put things together at times.

For clarity, I don't think anyone agrees with what Jerry said, or at least not anyone in the AR15 community. If you said the same thing at a hunting trade show, I think you would find more acceptance. I've met plenty of hunters who think the AK and AR15 owners are screwing up their chances of long term gun ownership.

Stick,

No need to apologize. I figured that was what you were saying, just confused at first.

And I agree, a different response would most likely have come from the hunting crowd. As a member of both communities, I have received scrutiny from fellow hunters over my ownership of tactical weapons. My response is always "well, I'm not going to defend my home with a bolt action .300 win mag." While I'm not the only one who enjoys a variety of shooting sports, it is clear that the firearms community is divided.

[Stickman]

you can argue that you're pro 2A and still support an AWB.

A- I see nothing in the Constitution limiting the citizens rights to defend themselves, their family, or this country.

B- I will no longer support RECOIL with that editor.

C- he tried to place the blame on HK instead of manning up.

D- If he would have stopped after the first paragraph, I could be more on board with your guys sentiments.

Not trying to chop your reply apart, just making it easier to reply by each point. People can argue they are for the 2nd Amendment, but if they take parts of it out, or restrict it, then they show themselves to be against it. They can't have it both ways. The 2nd A exists as a whole, not as pieces.

A- Agreed, the 2nd Amendment is very clear in that regard.

B- That seems to be a very common and catchy thing for people to say right now. If you feel that way, I don't see anyone as trying to dissuade you, certainly not here at least. Your opinion is as legit as that of anyone else. What I encourage people to do is be more than an echo of the internet with a mob mentality where everyone does/ says the same thing. If that is all you can think of, that is fine, but I would bet there is more. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, let me know.

C- I'll agree and disagree with this one. Its clear from your comment you've never dealt with HK, at least not in the same way some of us have. They are known to be extremely elitist, and what Jerry Tsai wrote sounds word for word like what I've heard before from HK. If you look at what he wrote in the rest of the article, or everything else he has written in RECOIL, it is obvious the one "slimy" section is unlike his style of writing. Does that excuse what was written, I'll agree and say no. Had he put it in quotes it would have been more accurate and HK would be taking all the heat for this, but he didn't.

D- What part aren't you on board with? Everyone here has been against what was said and has been very clear about it.... I'm missing the disconnect part here.

[Stickman]

I do not see him attributing those comments to HK until the slimy hands line. It reads to me that he is agreeing with them, and that he is trying to use the regurgitation of their talking points that he used to write the article as his scapegoat. Perhaps I am mistaken of his intent in the article, but I still believe that even if he was knowingly writing what HK's perspective is on the MP7A1 then he should have voiced his disagreement. Nonetheless, RECOIL has praised HK since issue 1. I guess I'm skeptical of his intent based on how I've interpreted the article.

Agreed on all accounts. Though I think him regurgitating HKs line is more important than people are commenting on. HK should be taking a slap in the face for what their rep was saying, and for what their reps have been telling LE & MIL for years. For some reason HK seems to get a pass, and many people look at them as some how being a mythical German firearm God that should be not bad mouthed.

ETA- Again, I think we are all saying the same thing here, just in different ways.

[tac40]

I appreciate everyones comments. This shows the influence of the social media and how quickly it can pile up on any issues. I hope this will resolve itself soon.

[FortTom]

I think all of this just proves that the divisivness of this issue, is pretty much the same as the divisiveness of every other issue du jour in the U.S. Granted, I understand this is not a uniquely U.S. forum, but if someone on one network pisses somebody off, there's an automatic "tweeter" or "facebook" boycott. I don't know where to tune my TV, because of all of the "boycotts". Now there's ripping of magazine pages and gnashing of teeth. I can imagine people snarling and ripping their shirts off like the incredible Hulk. Gun owners are not immune from this either. I live in an open carry state, I feel that if we don't use that right, that we'll lose it. But, it's not considered genteel among certain members of the shooting crowd here, and I've been chastised for it by avid shooters here, and they usually just get my standard response wich is not appropriate for repeating on this forum. But the point is that the gun community like every other is as divided and possibly self destructive as any other advocacy group.

That being said, although you all make valid points, I just read past the BS line about slimey hands, and the rest and finished the article. Then I began reading some of the other articles. I took the magazine in it's entirety to judge it's worth....I like it, and have since the first issue. One paragraph from a writer does not necessarily reflect that of all the contributers to RECOIL and I don't think that any form of apology including setting himself on fire while flinging himself off a tall building, would suit some of the readers. Jerry Tsai would have been better served just mentioning that H&K will never make the MP7A1 available to the general public, and went on. The guy just screwed up. I see a lot of knee-jerk reaction here, and a lot of folks saying cool down a bit and take a second look.

But in the long run, there's nothing new here. A lively debate, and a polite one at that, but nothing new here. Are you old enough to rember the "Ruger" Boycott, with Bill Ruger sort of falling in line with the 5 round magazine thing? People howling and barking at the moon, and declaring almost certainly Sturm Ruger was going to be boycotted straight out of business. They're still here. I don't know if RECOIL has that much staying power, I guess time will tell. But as a long time shooter/firearm enthusiast, I'll just write the whole thing off as a personal blunder by Tsai, and invite others to throw the first stone......

Respectfully,
FT

[Stickman]

Things continue to get worse for RECOIL with a response from HK, who was no doubt smart enough to verify there was no video in place, then make the following statement.

Some readers have misinterpreted a recent feature story in RECOIL magazine as a reflection of HK policy. Heckler & Koch has a long presence in the US civilian market and throughout that time has been an ardent and passionate supporter of the Second Amendment and the American civilian shooter. This will always be the case. The contents, opinions, and statements expressed in that feature story are those of the writer, not Heckler and Koch’s. Additionally, the writer and RECOIL magazine have issued a clarification and apology for the ill-chosen words used in the story.

The HK MP7A1 4.6 mm Personal Defense Weapon mentioned in the story is a selective-fire product (capable of “full automatic” fire) and is currently restricted to military and law enforcement agencies by BATF. HK-USA has previously researched introducing similar commercial products, chambered in 4.6 mm, but it was determined that the final product would not have enough appeal or be legally feasible.

— Heckler & Koch USA

[Stickman]

Things got even worse when the publisher released the following official statement:

In light of some of the comments and complaints made about a paragraph in a recent article about the Heckler & Koch MP7A1, Recoil wishes to make the following points clear:

· It is simply not credible for anyone to question Recoil’s support for, and commitment to, the Second Amendment. Recoil is first and foremost a gun lifestyle magazine, aimed at the modern shooting enthusiast.

· The opinions in the paragraph in question accurately reflected those of the manufacturer, and should have been reported as direct quotes. Recoil acknowledges the way the paragraph was written has caused unnecessary confusion.

· Jerry Tsai, a passionate gun enthusiast and the visionary behind Recoil magazine, will remain as editor of Recoil.

We thank you for your support and understanding.

Quite honestly, if you read the article, it was one paragraph that was actually quoted from the manufacturer and we did not state it that way. Recoil has 26,000 likes on face book and the magazine has only been out for three issues and issue number 4 is just hitting the streets. I honestly believe that this will not hurt the magazine. I have not lost anyone as a result of this and do not expect to.

Joe Galloway
Associate Publisher
5.0 Mustang & Super Fords
Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords
Phone 813-675-3493
Fax 813-675-3557
Email joe.galloway@sorc.com
Assistant: Jennifer Conklin 813-675-3507

I was sent this email either right before, or right after it was released through some friends in the manufacturing community. None of us understand how RECOIL is allowing things to continually take a turn for the worse.

The need to swallow pride and make changes, not tell the firearm community to go suck it.

[csmith]

I honestly believe that this will not hurt the magazine. I have not lost anyone as a result of this and do not expect to.

This doesn't jive with the earlier post containing numerous manufacturers pulling ads. I assume, given the previous two posts, HK and this publication will no longer be collaborating together.

[Stickman]

This doesn't jive with the earlier post containing numerous manufacturers pulling ads. I assume, given the previous two posts, HK and this publication will no longer be collaborating together.

Politics makes for strange bedfellows. RECOIL might be the scourge of civilization right now, but because they only publish 4 times a year, a lot of time will pass and things may very well change within a few issues.

I honestly believe there is a lot RECOIL can do to change things, it is all a matter of if and when they decide they need to. The current position seems to be rather concrete, which is fine as they are just getting their current issue out to people now. The last issue of RECOIL was VERY thick with advertisers, so they are sitting pretty still. Any crunch they might feel won't be for a few months. My guess would be a 20% loss in ads would be acceptable, and even a 40% would be something they could eat for a few months.

Alter the content a bit and include some high end clothing, boot companies, and outdoor gear, and ad revenue would increase quickly again.

[landshark]

Just for a metric in all of this SSD has put up a post of the companies that have dropped advertising in RECOIL.

I think Stick is right though, give it some time, maybe a "new direction" and we will be seeing a new RECOIL mag in print soon enough.....unless they royally screw the pouch. I think at this point it would be in their best interest to either do nothing (i.e. no more statements, at least not till the next print) or make a statement to the effect that "yes, we messed up big and we are going to do X to make it back up".

[landshark]

Jerry Tsai has stepped down as the editor of RECOIL...

[Paulo_Santos]

Jerry Tsai has stepped down as the editor of RECOIL...

That's a shame. I don't like to see anyone lose their job, especially over something like this. I don't get how some people become borderline psychotic when someone threatens their right to bear arms, yet they don't see how they don't respect other people's freedom of speech. I guess as long as you completely agree with the right-wing gun nuts, you are ok.