5.56/.223 Appropriate? House w/Many Windows - Need to Minimize Risk to Neighbors (15->30 Yds Away)

[Powder_Burn]

I have been reading all over the net for a week but have not found information related to the effects of regular window pane glass on a 5.56/.223 round. I am planning to acquire a small carbine dedicated to indoor only home defense and want to minimize risk to my neighbors. The problem is that my house has more windows around the perimeter than brick/wallboard so I am concerned about collateral damage.

The question: Is there a 5.56/.223 round that would be at least as safe as other common home defense types when shot through standard window glass (9mm, .40, .45, 00 Buck etc)? I am looking for the best balance of performance/safety.

As an alternate option, I am also considering a house carbine in either 9mm or 5.7x28 but I didn't find information on the effects on glass on these either. I am open to SBR'ing an AR but would prefer to stay at 16" to avoid paperwork.

[BRD Jerm]

i think anything that has acceptable performance will also penetrate through many walls and/or glass.

the best way to minimize risk is shot placement...

keep them in the BG,he'll stop them better than anything and dropping him(/them) allows the firing to stop.

a "safer"(less effective) round could just mean more rounds needed,which would make for more of the risk you're trying to avoid.

[Powder_Burn]

To your point, I agree good skills and quality equipment trump all. The nature of my question really is that while there are many adequate loads, I want the one that is the least lethal once it goes through a window. So for example, I like the Hornady 75gr TAP load and the Black Hills 77gr MatchKing. However, if I used a Speer 63gr soft point, I would assume it to be adequate as well and among the three, one is bound to be less lethal in a miss situation. The question is whether or not two 3mm layers of glass will disrupt any bullet in any caliber enough to make a difference.

[TigerStripe]

A ballistic tipped round would be less likely to go through glass. 55 grain TAP black box would likely be a good round. Winchester 45 grain JHP .223 would as well. It may take a couple more shots to "stop" the BG though. 5.7 is not a good round as it was designed specifically for penetration. The 5.7 JHP round may do the job. JMO...



TS

[Paulo_Santos]

Hornady 40 Gr. TAP or the Federal TRU 45 Gr. HP. would be your best bet.

[BRD Jerm]

To your point, I agree good skills and quality equipment trump all. The nature of my question really is that while there are many adequate loads, I want the one that is the least lethal once it goes through a window. So for example, I like the Hornady 75gr TAP load and the Black Hills 77gr MatchKing. However, if I used a Speer 63gr soft point, I would assume it to be adequate as well and among the three, one is bound to be less lethal in a miss situation. The question is whether or not two 3mm layers of glass will disrupt any bullet in any caliber enough to make a difference.

i understand...

just seems like more of a liability concern to me than one of safety.i would think the safest thing for everyone(minus the BG) would be to end the threat as quickly as possible.a less effective round could(in theory anyway) just mean more rounds flying in both directions...

i guess it comes down to how effective one of the "safer" rounds is relative to say the 75gr TAP?

[Powder_Burn]

From the responses, it looks like I might as well just assume the windows aren't even there and make decisions from there. In my situation, it looks like am headed down the road of a 9mm or .45 carbine. Pistol rounds are adequate in the 0->15 yard range while being somewhat less lethal beyond the perimeter of the house in a miss situation. Seems to be the best balance of performance/safety.

[BRD Jerm]

while being somewhat less lethal beyond the perimeter of the house in a miss situation.

there seems to be alot of debate about that(lethality of handgun rounds vs certain rifle rounds after penetration of objects).

i dont know what to tell you,other than much of the evidence seems to be counterintuitive.

[Stickman]

there seems to be alot of debate about that(lethality of handgun rounds vs certain rifle rounds after penetration of objects).

i dont know what to tell you,other than much of the evidence seems to be counterintuitive.

There is no debate, its factual, and reports can be read on it from the FBI as well as many others. Handguns are not the way to bring the fight to a bad guy inside your house. Its less effective its its terminal ballsitics, and the handgun hollow point rounds clog with drywall or wood, simply becoming a slug once they go through a barrier. A 5.56 round at least the the probability of fragmenting.

[BRD Jerm]

thats what i thought(enough so to make my decisions based arround said tests),but im no ballistics expert.

didnt say it was legitimate debate.

i would think a rifle/carbine chambered in the pistols rounds would be the worst possible way to go?

[Stickman]

i would think a rifle/carbine chambered in the pistols rounds would be the worst possible way to go?

The worst way to go would be believing that the police will come save you, and not having firearms in the house to start with.

The problem with a lot of these scenarios is that they can be taken so far out of real world context that it becomes obscene. In real world use of force encounters, things don't tend to happen the way you plan.



ETA- I don't mean by any stretch that the OP is getting goofy with his question.

[BRD Jerm]

The worst way to go would be believing that the police will come save you, and not having firearms in the house to start with.

too true.

[Whixton]

The worst way to go would be believing that the police will come save you, and not having firearms in the house to start with.

May I use this line? With credit of course

[Paulo_Santos]

I think too many people get caught up on the whole ballistics thing. If you shoot anyone with a decent .223 bullet, they will go down, period. I would be more worried about tactics and how to use an AR or handgun properly before I beat myself over the head with which ammo is best for this or that situation. If someone enters your house and you are justified to shoot him/her, shoot the BG until he stops moving towards you.

[TigerStripe]

I think too many people get caught up on the whole ballistics thing. If you shoot anyone with a decent .223 bullet, they will go down, period. I would be more worried about tactics and how to use an AR or handgun properly before I beat myself over the head with which ammo is best for this or that situation. If someone enters your house and you are justified to shoot him/her, shoot the BG until he stops moving towards you.

Exactly.


TS