Acceptable AR carbine accuracy?

[jvencius]

I just got back from firing the first 110 rounds out of the AR I picked up last week and I'm not sure whether to be happy or upset with the accuracy I was able to produce. With 55 gr. FMJ ammo (new, not surplus or reloads), the best I was able to achieve was ~ 2 1/2"-3" groups at 50 yds. kneeling (forgot my portable bench and mat so kneeling was about as stable as I could get). I was using open sights--stock AR front and Troy folding rear BUIS--but b/c it's been an embarrassingly-long amount of time since I fired an AR (actually it was an M-16) for score, I'm not sure how to react. FWIW, my AR is a Sabre M5 with a 1:9, 16" bbl. and middy gas system.

[BRD Jerm]

sounds pretty good to me.

although im not the greatest shot.

new carbine...random 55gr ammo...open sights...i would consider that more than acceptable(for myself anyway).

[Stickman]

jvencius,

One of the things on this board we strive for is honestly, and I appreciate you calling it the way it happened. I believe the MIL weapons you and I carried were supposed to be roughly 2-3 MOA. Some shot better, and some were pretty beat and may have fired a little worse.


As far as your current weapon groups, its possible its the ammo, it possible its you, its possible its both. However, in the words of a good friend of mine (fellow instructor), if you ain't prone, you ain't sh*t.

Drop down into the prone or prone supported position and see how it goes for you. I don't think I've ever met anyone who doesn't shoot better in the prone than they do from a knee.

Another thing to work is your dry fire drills. Most peopel won't do dry fire for some reason, but the ones that do see the dramatic payoff. Which reminds me, its been awhile since I've done my dry fire drills, so I need to practice what I preach!

[TigerStripe]

My carbines have bipods on them because as Stick said, prone is the best way to shoot (and determine the accuracy of your weapon). 2.5"-3" kneeling ain't bad, especially if you haven't shot an AR in quite a while.


Thanks for your service!


TS

[jvencius]

jvencius,

One of the things on this board we strive for is honestly, and I appreciate you calling it the way it happened. I believe the MIL weapons you and I carried were supposed to be roughly 2-3 MOA. Some shot better, and some were pretty beat and may have fired a little worse.

Hell, most folks around the AR boards I read are pretty damn good at sniffing out fakers so there's no point in trying to hide that I'm out of practice b/c I'd get caught sooner rather than later. Even though I shot "Expert" on the M-16 AF qualification, it wasn't a terribly demanding course of fire and getting the star on my Small Arms Expert ribbon (1st award fro the M-9, repeat for the M-16) wasn't really something to crow about.

If I could eventually get to 3 MOA with my AR, I'd be pleased since that would allow me to make center-mass hits, God forbid if SHTF, out to 300 meters. Past that I have some hardware better suited for long range but 3 MOA/300 meters with an AR carbine would be entirely sufficient.

As far as your current weapon groups, its possible its the ammo, it possible its you, its possible its both. However, in the words of a good friend of mine (fellow instructor), if you ain't prone, you ain't sh*t.

Drop down into the prone or prone supported position and see how it goes for you. I don't think I've ever met anyone who doesn't shoot better in the prone than they do from a knee.

I would have gone prone but I forgot the blanket I use for prone (too cheap to buy a dedicated shooting mat when a $2.99 Army surplus wool blanket works like a champ) and so I only went to kneeling. Actually, even kneeling wasn't all that much fun since the first time I dropped into position, I kneeled directly on top of a cactus and cactus spines getting driven into one's kneecap are an accuracy enhancement...

Another thing to work is your dry fire drills. Most peopel won't do dry fire for some reason, but the ones that do see the dramatic payoff. Which reminds me, its been awhile since I've done my dry fire drills, so I need to practice what I preach!

.223 snap caps are yet another thing I need to add to my latest ever-growing Brownell's order. It's rather amusing that the $9.99 widget I genuinely need eventually costs me $300 since there are so many other neat gadgets in their catalog that I am unable to resist buying. My pistol results are dramatically better if I've been dry-firing a lot, so I know the value of that practice.

[C-Fish]

...I kneeled directly on top of a cactus and cactus spines getting driven into one's kneecap are an accuracy enhancement......

LOL...

Gots to watch out fur the cacti prior to placing a fleshy part on the ground


Thanks for the laugh (on your expense). Hope the knee is OK.

[Stickman]

There are certainly worse places to get stuck with thorns.

Just remember that while snap caps are nice, you can dry fire your AR15 all day long without causing any damage. If you want to work reload drills, or malfunction clearance, empty casings work, though they do tend to stick in the chamber at times.

[Benthic]

There are certainly worse places to get stuck with thorns.

Just remember that while snap caps are nice, you can dry fire your AR15 all day long without causing any damage. If you want to work reload drills, or malfunction clearance, empty casings work, though they do tend to stick in the chamber at times.

Stick,

Is that true of any brand AR? I have refrained from dry firing mine for fear of damage.

Brian

[jvencius]

I did a little better today, so I suspect practice might actually help... From 50 yds off a shaky rest (rolled-up t-shirt on top of an ammo can on a collapsible table), I had my first 60 shots either on or touching a strip of duct tape that was however-wide duct tape is by ~3" long. For some reason, the Federal bulk-pack 50 gr. JHP rounds I bought at Wally-World (they use '08 Lake City brass!!!) were more accurate than the 55 gr. FMJ's I used, so I might stick with the Federals as a plinking load since they're a bit cheaper as well as more accurate.

[TigerStripe]

In my experience each barrel has a round it "likes" better than others. The 50gr Federal may be one that your barrel likes. I have a carbine with a CMMG barrel that likes 55gr Remington green&white box and the Charles Daley D-M4 doesn't like it. The Charles Daly shoots 55gr Black Hills FMJ well and the CMMG barrel carbine doesn't shoot it well.


TS

[Stickman]

Stick,

Is that true of any brand AR? I have refrained from dry firing mine for fear of damage.

Brian

Yes, any AR15 that is assembled can be dry fired. Just remember that we don't drop the hammer when the upper is off the lower as that can cause problems when the hammer slaps into the bolt catch and lower. When its all assembled, the hammer drops onto the rear of the BCG just like it does when its being fired in real life.

Please remember that if you are doing dry fire, all of your ammo should be in another room or far away from where you are running your drills. Check and recheck the chamber before you start. Too many TVs, cats, and even people have paid the price for carelessness.

[Benthic]

Yes, any AR15 that is assembled can be dry fired. Just remember that we don't drop the hammer when the upper is off the lower as that can cause problems when the hammer slaps into the bolt catch and lower. When its all assembled, the hammer drops onto the rear of the BCG just like it does when its being fired in real life.

Please remember that if you are doing dry fire, all of your ammo should be in another room or far away from where you are running your drills. Check and recheck the chamber before you start. Too many TVs, cats, and even people have paid the price for carelessness.

Thanks for the info, and the safety reminder about dry firing. One can never be too careful!

Brian