Next Project.. Something Different

[Computalotapus]

Well all done with the wife's AR-15 and now I am thinking about my next project build....problem is I have no clue what I want to build. I want something that costs less to take to the range but something I could still hunt with. I am not against going to an AR-10 platform but would really like to keep it on the AR-15 platform. I really like the idea of the 6.5 Grendel. It is something I can hunt with and shoot long distance but not something I can go plinking with due to cost per round. The 300AAC Blackout is an option as well as the 5.45x39 round.

Pros/Cons? I am open for suggestions as well.

Wish there was more stuff on the .17 HMR for the AR-15 platform cause I would make a range plinker in a heartbeat. But I am having trouble finding a barrel for that round. AA has the upper but I would rather build it myself.

[Computalotapus]

I will be picking up some aero precision blemished receiver sets ( 2 ). Looking to build 2 identical rifles for the girls to use at the range and at the Appleseed shoots. Seriously thinking the 5.45x39 is the way to go ammo is cheap and the round gives them the range needed for the Appleseed shoots.

[UWone77]

I will be picking up some aero precision blemished receiver sets ( 2 ). Looking to build 2 identical rifles for the girls to use at the range and at the Appleseed shoots. Seriously thinking the 5.45x39 is the way to go ammo is cheap and the round gives them the range needed for the Appleseed shoots.

How much is 5.45x39 running?

[Computalotapus]

How much is 5.45x39 running?

If I do bulk anywhere from .19-.21 a round. I'm really looking for something that is a 400yd round. Now I know I have to worry about high corrosion with these rounds but thoroughly cleaning after each shoot should add some life to the barrel. Figure muzzle devices should be fairly common for the AK-74 to help with recoil and rise.

[gatordev]

If I do bulk anywhere from .19-.21 a round. I'm really looking for something that is a 400yd round. Now I know I have to worry about high corrosion with these rounds but thoroughly cleaning after each shoot should add some life to the barrel. Figure muzzle devices should be fairly common for the AK-74 to help with recoil and rise.

My Spike's 5.45 gun has been my "go to" competition gun for the last 6+ months. When I say "competition," I really mean local action rifle meet, but still, I have ~1000 rounds through mine so far and it's been great. If I understand your thread correctly, it sounds like you would potentially be working towards an AR-patterned rifle vice an AK, so the AK patterned muzzle devices are not really in play. You can put any of the AR-patterned devices on the barrel, assuming it's threaded for 1/2x28TPI. Pretty much every Commie AR I've seen (when I was researching) is still threaded that way.

For non-suppressed 5mm rifles, I've been finding it hard to tell the relative differences between various muzzle devices (Surefire brake, BattleComp, SureFire FH, RA XTC mini), so I ended up putting a couple of Rock River Arms muzzle devices on a couple of rifles (to keep them legal in CA for how I run them). I put one on my 5.45 and it's ran great and had no corrosion issues. As for the rest of the rifle, there's been one slight problem spot (the gas key, of all places), but otherwise, I've been impressed with the 5.45 performance. If you can find some Golden Tiger (SGAmmo had some for a while), then you can get some 5.45 price difference and performance without the corrosive issues.

All just some data points for you. Not trying to convince you one way or the other.

[Computalotapus]

My Spike's 5.45 gun has been my "go to" competition gun for the last 6+ months. When I say "competition," I really mean local action rifle meet, but still, I have ~1000 rounds through mine so far and it's been great. If I understand your thread correctly, it sounds like you would potentially be working towards an AR-patterned rifle vice an AK, so the AK patterned muzzle devices are not really in play. You can put any of the AR-patterned devices on the barrel, assuming it's threaded for 1/2x28TPI. Pretty much every Commie AR I've seen (when I was researching) is still threaded that way.

For non-suppressed 5mm rifles, I've been finding it hard to tell the relative differences between various muzzle devices (Surefire brake, BattleComp, SureFire FH, RA XTC mini), so I ended up putting a couple of Rock River Arms muzzle devices on a couple of rifles (to keep them legal in CA for how I run them). I put one on my 5.45 and it's ran great and had no corrosion issues. As for the rest of the rifle, there's been one slight problem spot (the gas key, of all places), but otherwise, I've been impressed with the 5.45 performance. If you can find some Golden Tiger (SGAmmo had some for a while), then you can get some 5.45 price difference and performance without the corrosive issues.

All just some data points for you. Not trying to convince you one way or the other.

This is exactly the type of information I am looking for. I didn't know spikes made them. And yes I am looking to do the 5.45 in the AR platform not the AK. I was just reading up on the muzzle devices and pretty much everyone is using their preferred comp/brake for the 5.56. I really think this is my next build. I looks like it will be a fun weapon and I can really put some trigger time on it without my bank account feeling like its fasting with Nelson Mandela. What issues are you seeing at the gas key? From what I have read corrosion is the main enemy of this round but I think preventative actions such as firecleaning everything and flushing the weapon system after every use will help reduce this.

From what I understand that spring on the trigger is different? Are the gas blocks and gas tubes the same as the 5.56? Everything that I have looked at as far as buying a complete upper uses the plastic handguards and upgrading to the quad rail puts the complete upper into the $800 range. That is crazy expensive for an upper so really just looking at what I need as far as parts list to build the upper on my own. If the gas block and tube are the same and the only difference is the bcg and barrel this should be easy. Going to get the Aero Precision blemished receivers build the lower first as that is pretty simple. I think this is one of those that I should invest in the NiB BCG just to help with cleaning.

If you got any good resources for this please let me know :)

[gatordev]

So here's a mini-review/my adventure with my Spike's upper. Maybe more info than you want, but here you go...

First up, Spike's makes them, but they don't sell them. It's a special order for AIM Surplus and every few months, they get a new batch in. I'd recommend signing up for the email notification through them, but I've also seen these uppers for sale here and there. As I mentioned in another post, I frequent Calguns a lot because I'm currently stationed in CA, and you'll see one pop there every so often. I don't frequent AR15.com a lot, but I think I've seen them there, as well.

The carrier is the same Spike's NiB AR-15 carrier, it's just the bolt that's different (as far as I understand it). I'll get to my corrosion issues in a minute. Obviously I don't have a ton of rounds through it yet (like I said, just short of one spam can), but it's been functioning absolutely perfectly and is easily a 2 MOA gun, if not better, at least within 200m. I initially ran it as it came, with a FSP and Magpul MOE handguards. Because I have long arms, I find it more comfortable to run with a longer rail than a midlength, so I decided I would change some stuff out. I originally was going to go with cutting down the FSP and then throw a Fortis ReV on there, but I just don't have the tools for that at the moment, so I tried to knock the pins out. No joy, so took it to a local 'smith and they had to drill the FSP pins out. I took the box of parts home and put on a standard AR gas block. For whatever reason, I couldn't get the Daniel Defense clamp-style block I bought to take the Spike's gas tube. It was just REALLY tight and I ended up using more brawn than brains and snapped the tube (lesson learned). I had another known gas block (whose name I can't remember right now, but something like a BCM or the like, though it wasn't a BCM) and grabbed another gas tube from Parallax Tactical (they're local to me) and everything went much smoother. GB slipped right on and the tube went in no problem. After putting on the Rev and RRA brake (which is barely a brake, BTW...very easy to live with and very inexpensive), it was time to go function test at the range.

As for springs, I'm currently running it with a Geissele SSA that I had in a Spike's lower (coincidentally), but I also ran the upper for ~30 rounds with a G&R Tactical MILSPEC single-stage trigger (which is a LMT, as far as I understand it). I had ZERO issues with the single-stage trigger, but I've read that other people have had problems with the hard primers of the 7n6 when using other triggers. Who knows what they were using, but the G&R/LMT was plenty strong enough in the limited testing. However, just to be sure, everything I read was that the SSA was a sure thing, and sure enough, it has plenty of power and I've had ZERO failure to fires. Honestly, other than a magazine related issue (more on that in a minute), I don't know that I've had a single malfunction with the upper.

As far as cleaning and corrosion, here's been my experience... I never went down the "Windex" road for cleaning. I did try the hot water method to neutralize the salts from the primers, but in the end, it cost more time spent on cleaning because after I've rinsed it, I then had to blow it out with compressed air, and THEN clean it. So instead, my standard regimen is to shoot, bring it home and clean it the same day. I use M Pro 7, as it's advertised to neutralize the salts (which it appears to do). I don't go all out on the cleaning, but just run a few patches down the barrel and then make sure I hit the upper receiver and the BCG. I'm not terribly worried about either, especially the BCG, but I do try and at least neutralize with a few wipes. The one issue I've found for my set up was that if I didn't make the effort to put some M Pro 7 IN the gas key, it would start growing things in there as it sat on the gas tube sitting in the safe. Initially, when I was worried about corrosion, I would check the rifle the next day and sure enough, the BC was "locked" in the upper because it had started to "seize" to the gas tube. Once I got it separated, you could see the green corrosion starting just on the gas tube. Kind of makes sense when you understand that corrosion comes from dissimilar metals.

My solution now is to use part of a pipe cleaner and spray some M Pro on it and just jam it in the key a couple of times. That's it. I don't care about cleaning it, just neutralizing the salts. That seems to do the trick and ever since it's fine, as long as I do that every time. Maybe my key is just an "off" one, as Andrew on Vuurwapenblog.com never seemed to have the issue, but it's a pretty easy fix. I think I could be a little less anal about cleaning the rest of it as long as I hit the key and it would still be fine, just have a little more surface corrosion on it. As of now, there's pretty much NONE. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT spend hours on this. The gun isn't pristine, I just spend a little time neutralizing the salts, as opposed to my 5.56 guns which tend to just get thrown back in the safe after shooting them (except my precision rigs).

Next up...mags: I've read lots of differing reports for what mags work and what don't. The problem, as I perceive it, is that people don't clarify which upper they're using. The following has been my experience: I bought 5 30 round ASC mags. 4 of them have all kinds of feed problems. I think there may be some burs in the mag and I just haven't bothered to dig deeper. I probably will once I move and don't have to deal with the hi-cap concerns at a range. What I have found to work flawlessly is using stock PMags (I only have Gen 2s, both 20 and 30 round mags). You won't get a full 30 in the mag, since the round is fatter, and the mag will bulge a *little* bit, but I've had ZERO feed issues from them. They also drop free no problem. The "bulge" is farther down. I have a ton of PMags in my parents' attic (awaiting my return to freedom), so if I run a couple and they slowly get deformed (though I've seen no evidence of that), I'm still happy, as the gun shoots when I want it to. If you read on line, others have had much more luck with the ASC mags, but they tend to be running S&W 5.45 uppers, so I'm thinking that may be the difference. Maybe not.

Lastly, cost... You mentioned the total cost and how it becomes less effective to shoot. Keep in mind I grabbed 4K rounds of 7n6 before the panic, so my operating prices are lower (I think it's $.16/round), but I followed the guidance over at Vuurwapenblog.com and came up that if I shoot 4K of 7n6, I'll "pay" for the upper compared to the 5.56 ammo prices (pre-panic). After that, whether I have to buy a new barrel or can get some more 7n6, it's still a good deal. Even if I switch to Golden Tiger (assuming it's available), it's still cheaper than 5.56, generally, with less clean up, so it comes out in the long run. Because I invested so much up front (again, pre panic), I really don't care about round count when I shoot this thing. That's a nice place to be.

Okay, this was WAY longer than I thought it would be, so I apologize, but hopefully something in it was helpful. At the end of the day, I would definitely get this again...even with today's prices, I think it could still work in your favor over time.

[Computalotapus]

That's a lot of good info. Cost of building isn't really a factor, to be honest $50 a paycheck will go to this build. Expensive parts are going to be Rail, BCG, Barrel and in that order.

Quality receivers are becoming inexpensive (especially blems) . Buffer assemblies, stock, LPK's, Upper Parts Kit, Charging handles, sights/optics are going to be what they are. If the BCM GB works I would much rather just build it than buy it assembled. Really just need to find a quality barrel and as much as I don't want to so business with Spike's I guess I can suck it up for the bolt haha.

[Computalotapus]

Found a place to get the barrel 16", 1/8 twist, chrome lined, lightweight, M4 profile, melonite coating, NiB coated chamber, with a low pro gas block and gas tube for $330.00

[gatordev]

I don't know that you're going to get a bolt from Spike's. They're out of stock (and seem to always have issues keeping their NiB stuff in stock). Aim Surplus (and possibly others) have the whole group from time to time. FWIW, I never really understood the Spike's hate. I do recall seeing someone else selling a 5.45 bolt at some point, but I don't remember who so I'm not sure if it was a reputable dealer. I'm sure some Googling will point you in the right direction.

That said, if part of the fun is the build, then I completely understand. Obviously you're finding most of the parts you're looking for. But for a working, out of the box upper, the Spike's from AIM is a pretty good deal...assuming it's in stock. Either way, enjoy.

[Computalotapus]

Most of the fun is the build. I don't hate Spikes, I have never done business with them. I have seen how people that represent Spikes have acted on other forums and that persuades me from doing business with them. If I can't find it anywhere else I will get it from them.

Now my problems with out of the box uppers is in the end I'm gonna end up stripping it down to put what I want on it. Low profile GB, 13-14" rail, muzzle device. It just seems more economic to build it plus I enjoy the build. The bolt will be the hard item to find. But like I said its a $50 a paycheck project to keep me occupied through this coming winter.

[Vic]

Have you looked at Rainier Arms's NiB bolt? They had it in stock last time I checked their website.

[Computalotapus]

Have you looked at Rainier Arms's NiB bolt? They had it in stock last time I checked their website.

Probably will get the bolt carrier from RA but I don't think RA has a 5.45x39 bolt :)

[Vic]

Ah fair enough. How much ammo will you have to shoot to break even?

[Computalotapus]

Haven't done the math on that. I think what's going to happen is my current AR is going to be the HD go to. It's simple an the only aftermarket item on it is a light.

I will probably take after gator and make this my local carbine meet, and range rifle. I am not a pro shooter but I really want to start shooting at local competitions and take some classes this next spring/summer.

I have been doing the research on nearby courses. So the goal is to have this up and running so the wife and I can do some classes together.