Trying to decide on a new scope

[ducrider14]

Hey guys, wanted some input, I'm currently looking to get a scope for this ar15 wanted some opinions, I have been looking at the 1x6 scopes like the vortex hd gen2 but would possibly look at something like the 1x4 night force, or equivalent, I've never had a variable power scope so I don't have any experience with one at all, the gun i will be using it on is a 16" proof research barrel ar15 so I was hoping to reach out a little further than the 450 yards I have been shooting at, I've only had an aimpoint t1, eotech exps2 and a ta-11 acog so this would be the first jump into the scope department for me

[UWone77]

Obviously, you're no stranger to quality components, but what's your budget?

[ducrider14]

Realistically around 1500,

[UWone77]

If you think you'll honestly shoot a lot of close range 100 yards in as well, I'd consider a 1-6, like the Razor Gen II. 1-4 may meet your needs as well, but probably not as good at 450 yards. If you feel you'll shoot a lot at 450 yards, I'd consider a 2.5-10x32 like the Nightforce or Vortex PST.

Paging JGifford...

[GOST]

Schmidt & Bender Zenith Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 1.1-4x 24mm .15 MIL Flashdot Illuminated FD7 Reticle Matte on sale at Midway for $1589.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/879...ProductFinding

[DutyUse]

Gost and UW mentioned some great scopes, so i'll just be echoing them...

If it were my $, and I planned on using this rifle for mostly long distance/precision shooting the Trijicon Accupoint 2.5-12.5x42 would be my pick
Link

And if was shooting a blend, with some long range mixed in the Trijicon Accupoint 1-6x24 would be high on the list
Link

[ducrider14]

My local range here has steel targets set up at 450 yards, so as of now that's as far as I shoot, maybe I will look into the 2.5x10, had not thought of those before, but it might be a better fit, most the time I will be shooting the other ar's that I have so this one won't get as many rounds through it, it's was kind of my 40th birthday present to myself. That Schmidt and bender is pretty nice though, On top of the scope I e got to figure out the whole mil/moa ffp/sfp stuff also

[Slippers]

Unless the reticle is designed well, a front focal plane scope in the 1-4/1-6 and even 2.5-10 range doesn't work well. I have owned the vortex 2.5-10x32 ffp and the reticle is very tiny at 2.5x, especially the mil version.

Some people aren't bothered by it, or use it so little at 2.5 it doesn't matter. I'm partial to the NF 2.5-10 because it's SFP, but I also like to shoot it at 2.5.

[gatordev]

Unless the reticle is designed well, a front focal plane scope in the 1-4/1-6 and even 2.5-10 range doesn't work well. I have owned the vortex 2.5-10x32 ffp and the reticle is very tiny at 2.5x, especially the mil version.

Personally, I don't agree with this, but I think it really comes down to how you shoot your rifle. Not that there's a right or wrong way, just "your" way. I find having a FFP 2.5-10 is very useful. Numerous times I've found it very nice to have less than max mag (let's say ~5x) and still have a reticule that is giving me accurate information at intermediate distances without having to spin a turret AND have accurate holds for wind. That's not to say I don't also sit at max mag other times when shooting, which would render FFP unnecessary.

I've also found that, during some shooting situations (but certainly not all), people struggle with having too much mag, even very good shooters. At the end of the day, if you're just shooting out to 450 from a bench plinking away, then a SFP will work great, but identifying how you want to use it will drive the solution.

[ducrider14]

Yes, a lot to think about, I really need to go find some of these and look through them, and decide what I really want to do with this rifle,

[Slippers]

At least quote my whole post, where I basically say it's personal preference. :)

Edit: I also didn't say it wasn't useful, or that the reticle is too small at 5x. I said it's too small at 2.5x (for me).

[alamo5000]

I'm going to be a little bit contrarian here. On other fronts I will agree with various aspects of several posts here.

My regular shooting spot has plates hanging out really far. I've taken my AR out to 800 yards which I can hit fairly reliably. Of course when you have 15 mph wind gusts it makes it more complicated.

I am shooting with a vortex 1-4 PST. I don't know. Maybe I'm just an oddball.

For me 400 yards and in is easy. The real wild card is going to be ammo. With off the shelf ammo 400 yards is readily doable on a full size silhouette. The thing is even with good home rolled ammo you can only expect a certain level of precision out farther like that. I've shot probably almost a case of various ammo and 4 to 500 yards is about what you're gonna get. With home rolled ammo I've been able to go a lot farther.

Long story short its going to depend on what kind of shooting you want to do, but I personally think where a 2.5-10 would shine is 300 yards and in. That is primarily because of the platform. But just putting lead on target it all depends. If you are going to be a bipod shooter or off a rest then that's one thing. If that's not your thing then that can alter choices.

Are you primarily going to shoot long range? Are you going to mix it up some? If you want an all around optic that's one thing. If you want one that will excel in one area or the other that's something different.

I am of the school that at 400 yards you can hit with almost anything decent. The real trick is figuring out what kind of mixture you want between short and long range. Do you want an illuminated bdc or do you want an moa or mil based system? All these other functions are going to matter more overall. So far for an AR a good 1-4 or 1-6 is plenty enough in my opinion. If you have a precision rig and want to shoot groups at 100 yards then get the 2.5-10.

[JGifford]

$1500 is no-mans-land.

It's a bit more than quality top-end 1-4's run, but not quite enough for the top end 1-6's.

I played with the VCOG. I now have a Nightforce 1-4 FC-2 with PTL headed my way. I hated the VCOG, but the two NF 1-4's I have looked through were awesome!

My vote goes toward the 1-4 NXS for a 1-4, and to the Kahles K16i, K15i, or Z6i for a 1-5/6.

The Vortex Razor is almost a full 3/4 pound heavier.

The Steiner scopes have gotten rave reviews lately, as well. I just have not looked at them. The Vortex Razor HD was 90% of the scope the Kahles K16i was that I looked through, for 60% of the price, but had 140% of the weight...

[ducrider14]

I'm going to be a little bit contrarian here. On other fronts I will agree with various aspects of several posts here.

My regular shooting spot has plates hanging out really far. I've taken my AR out to 800 yards which I can hit fairly reliably. Of course when you have 15 mph wind gusts it makes it more complicated.

I am shooting with a vortex 1-4 PST. I don't know. Maybe I'm just an oddball.

For me 400 yards and in is easy. The real wild card is going to be ammo. With off the shelf ammo 400 yards is readily doable on a full size silhouette. The thing is even with good home rolled ammo you can only expect a certain level of precision out farther like that. I've shot probably almost a case of various ammo and 4 to 500 yards is about what you're gonna get. With home rolled ammo I've been able to go a lot farther.

Long story short its going to depend on what kind of shooting you want to do, but I personally think where a 2.5-10 would shine is 300 yards and in. That is primarily because of the platform. But just putting lead on target it all depends. If you are going to be a bipod shooter or off a rest then that's one thing. If that's not your thing then that can alter choices.

Are you primarily going to shoot long range? Are you going to mix it up some? If you want an all around optic that's one thing. If you want one that will excel in one area or the other that's something different.

I am of the school that at 400 yards you can hit with almost anything decent. The real trick is figuring out what kind of mixture you want between short and long range. Do you want an illuminated bdc or do you want an moa or mil based system? All these other functions are going to matter more overall. So far for an AR a good 1-4 or 1-6 is plenty enough in my opinion. If you have a precision rig and want to shoot groups at 100 yards then get the 2.5-10.

yes, 400 is no problem with the trijicon or the red dots i have, that is the question, what do i really want to do with this rifle

[ducrider14]

$1500 is no-mans-land.

It's a bit more than quality top-end 1-4's run, but not quite enough for the top end 1-6's.

I played with the VCOG. I now have a Nightforce 1-4 FC-2 with PTL headed my way. I hated the VCOG, but the two NF 1-4's I have looked through were awesome!

My vote goes toward the 1-4 NXS for a 1-4, and to the Kahles K16i, K15i, or Z6i for a 1-5/6.

The Vortex Razor is almost a full 3/4 pound heavier.

The Steiner scopes have gotten rave reviews lately, as well. I just have not looked at them. The Vortex Razor HD was 90% of the scope the Kahles K16i was that I looked through, for 60% of the price, but had 140% of the weight...

I understand the price i am in is kind of right between, trying to figure out if I want to spend a little more for better glass or not, my problem is i wont sell other guns to get good glass and it takes awhile to save up some money sometimes as I have four kids, age 12, 9, 5, and 3, so family comes first, then the other stuff, right now its soccer season so we have soccer 7 days a week, not much time for anything else. . Ive never been a huge fan of the trijicon reticles so really havnt look at them much anyway, but I do like the nightforce scopes