Philosophical Thread on First AR Build

[alamo5000]

You guys can credit Stickman for me being here :) I didn't even know you guys existed until recently, but now that I am poking around I like it.

A little bit of background... I am from Texas. I have always been a firearms owner. Most of the stuff I have is due to me being a skeet shooter. In the past few years I have also gotten quite a collection of pistols. I admit I am Sig fanboy when it comes to pistols. I also quite enjoy the concept of precision rifle shooting. Learning about grain weights, reloads, calculating DOPE so on and so forth are also very interesting. I have shot an MP5 and an MP40 as well as other types of interesting firearms. I do own an AK.

I am telling you guys all this so that you can know that I didn't just fall off the truck. The basic concepts of things I pretty much have down :)

Now all that said, of all the firearms I own I have never built or owned an AR. I've shot em but never owned one or built one.

I am on the virge of building my first AR (being able to build a rifle is part of the appeal of the platform) but the truth of the matter is there are SO MANY different parts and manufacturers and bells and whistles that it kind of scares me off from things. Maybe the term 'scared off' isn't the right word, but it it does get kind of confusing.

The decision I face now is, do I go relatively cheap or do I go with what I (think) are premium components? I could easily get a spikes lower and upper and build about that level throughout the rifle...IE moderately priced, name brand, still pretty good quality.... or I can go full on billet upper and lower and have a nicer trigger and a nickel M16 bolt. (I am thinking Seekins for the upper and lower)

I am kind of stingy with money UNLESS I can see a difference in what is produced. I don't mind spending $900 bucks on a Sig pistol because in my experience vs a $300 cheap model I can tell what it does and doesn't do and WHY they are different. I don't know all that when it comes to an AR.

All that said, if you were in my boat thinking like I think... should I go kind of cheap until I learn whats up or should I just go with what I perceive to be better?

[Ride4frnt]

YMMV, but my first rifle I built in 2010 used a spikes lower that I built with a milspec parts kit and magpul stock and I put a complete spikes upper on it. It remains my favorite rifle to shoot regularly, probably because it's the most practical of the rifles I've built. Second one I dropped a bit more coin on and went for a 16" noveske barrel, seekins rail, premium parts inside the lower, etc. love that rifle but it has become my deer gun and not much of a range toy, mainly because it's .300blk and I don't wanna run through all my ammo before i get to reloading for it. Most recent rifle I've completed was the most expensive of them. Seekins billet lower, CMT billet upper (from WEVO 50k giveaway) 18" black hole polygonal barrel, 15" rainier force keymod rail, geissele trigger, and some other goodies. Currently building a pistol that I think I'll have about 900 in when it's all said and done, but I'm still using quality parts.

It can be done on a relatively small budget if you shop around for deals and sales, but I don't think you will be disappointed by paying a bit more for premium parts, especially like you said, if you don't mind spending on a sig over a hi-point.

[RiverRat]

Welcome to the board, Alamo.

I was in the same position 3ish years ago....new to the platform both with decades of firearms experience. Here's what I would suggest based on my experiences:

My initial build tried to be too general in use (wide specs), but still came in a $1K (prices for most parts were higher then). I've got it dialed in now, but it took some extra work, experimentation and purchase of a premium trigger. The tighter your initial definition for use, the more immediate satisfaction you'll have - and that's a good thing in a first build. And yeah, I'm gonna harp on form-follows-function if you're dedicated to building your first AR.

Slightly unrelated: try to minimize the number of sources you buy from. Shipping costs add up and can easily erase savings from finding a slightly better deal on individual parts from multiple vendors. If you're planning to build only one AR (yeah, right....you'll look back at that and laugh), then getting a complete bill of materials and minimizing the number of orders will save you a surprising amount - sometimes enough that it's just not worth waiting for marginal discounts.

Stick with standard milspec forged receivers. I have non-standard forged and billet parts that are out-of-spec or require modification to springs, including a top-of-the-line Noveske Gen 2 forged lower that is slightly narrow side-to-side. You don't need to deal with that for your first build. Cost difference between the "best" and "typical" is pretty minimal - but most of those differences are cosmetic (rollmark, finish). Enough minimal changes do add up to appreciable amounts.

The barrel really defines the carbine. Don't skimp but don't get too extravagant. Expect to pay $180-$250 for a really nice barrel that fits how you want to use the rifle (when you can articulate that). Materials, lining/finish, profile, twist and chambering might matter - if you tell people here what you what to do with your carbine, chances are really good someone will suggest a barrel that meets your need in that price range - but take your time with this piece and try to get it right for your expected use. Focus on 16" barrels with midlength gas systems for your first build - no fussing with permanent muzzle devices and performance is robust. Don't be afraid to look at a barrel profile and ask questions - I still maintain the standard M4 profile isn't useful to most of us.

Get a very good full auto bolt carrier group - it will cost $100 -$170 depending on what you want.

Expect to upgrade your trigger at some point, if you're at all fussy about such things. I still haven't won the lower parts kit lottery with a decent included fire control group, so this is a default upgrade for me. Tailor this purchase to your expected use.....putting a $220 two stage trigger on a truck gun is pointless. But a truck gun might be worth a $45 ALG QMS upgrade. Stick with standard strength trigger springs in your first build.

Expect to end up monkeying a little with the recoil system - at least trying some heavier buffers, so budget a few extra bucks to learn about how to tune the gun. For the life of me, I don't know why H1 (slightly heavier than normal) hasn't become a defacto standard. Avoid adjustable gas blocks on this first build, and honestly I can't see any reason to pay a 3x upcharge for a premium gas block on AR #1.

From there, bits get much more into personal preference and I would suggest keeping it pretty simple at first. I have a couple of inexpensive free float rails I really like and one that I still need to give away because I despise it. Stock balancing and cheek welds can be very personally driven. I use different pistol grips for different carbines, because it makes sense (to me at least). Again, this is where you can use us as a resource - and some options might be less helpful depending on your intended use. '

Ultimately, you need get less philosophical and more practical in how you'll use this first AR for us to know if upgrades make sense :) Lean on the guys on this forum - we like to help when we can.

[UWone77]

I'll tell you what I tell all new potential AR15 owners.

If this is your first AR15, I would get either a Colt 6720 or a Colt 6920.

Yeah it's not as sexy to some as "building one" but the Colt is still the gold standard, still the only AR built to the TDP. Better yet, right now it can be had for $850-$899. I would argue that you cannot build a "better" correctly built AR for less. If you don't like it, you'll be able to get your money out of it. The same cannot be said for a "custom" $1800 build.

[DutyUse]

a Colt 6920.

This. They even sell them at Wally World. Buy one, shoot it for awhile just bone stock. Then after awhile you will know what you like about that rifle and what you might want to change for the next one.

[FortTom]

I'll tell you what I tell all new potential AR15 owners.

If this is your first AR15, I would get either a Colt 6720 or a Colt 6920.

Yeah it's not as sexy to some as "building one" but the Colt is still the gold standard, still the only AR built to the TDP. Better yet, right now it can be had for $850-$899. I would argue that you cannot build a "better" correctly built AR for less. If you don't like it, you'll be able to get your money out of it. The same cannot be said for a "custom" $1800 build.

I second this. I highly recommend that you buy your first. You'll not achieve anything from building one from scratch, to which you might find you don't even like shooting them (AR's). I currently have 5 "home built" AR's, and each of them was built a little differently, and for different purposes, but all can serve multi-function roles, with the exception of 3 gun competition. Another thing is, as exactly as UWone77 said, you can't beat one of the Colts or many others for the price these days, and after the big "scare", which if things go the WH's way this fall, we might see another. Point being, every one of mine cost a lot more than what I could have bought one for. Figure just a NiB BCU and a $500 dollar optic, plus a mount and your already over $700 bucks into your "build", and you don't even have a trigger or a lower receiver to mount it in. Then, there are times I've had to do some machining to make things work like they should. So, while probably unlikely, you'll need machining skills, and own or have access to a milling machine. You'll need a variety of tools, punches, roll pin punches, roll pin starter punches, torque wrench(s) and a set of hollow ground screwdrivers for gun screws, depending.

If you have unlimited funds, and an absolute need to build or assemble one, then from a philosophical bent, go for it. But I've seen more AR's get a few hundred rounds through them, then when the "cool" wore off, live the rest of their lives in a gun safe. Also, depending on whether you reload or not, you're probably want to bring at least 150 - 300 rounds to the range. As an AK owner, I'm sure you realize how fast you can go through that much ammo, at the range or on the farm or whatever.

If you buy that $899 Colt, and find that you just absolutely have to have another, custom tailored to your exact needs, then I say go for it. But you mentioned the mind boggling array of available parts. You might, then, have a better feel for what you need and how to navigate through that set of problems. You should at least have a decent feel for trouble shooting your weapon. I've seen too many "1st Builds" go south over the simplest things. E.g. a neighbor of mine brought a used store bought, home built, rifle for me to look at to see if I could figure out why it wouldn't cycle correctly. I took about 5 minutes to figure out he had a carbine buffer and spring in a rifle stock. The store owner he bought it from had told him there was nothing wrong with it, he just wasn't holding it correctly while firing?? Yeah, really, or it was the bad ammo he was shooting.

Back to the "philosophical" side: Do what makes your soul happy.

Either way, have fun.

[Gaspipeshooter]

The other posters are spot on; if you've never gotten a chance to do much shooting with an AR, a factory model gun, as they describe is the best way to "test the waters without jumping into the pool" your first time out. I started shooting ARs casually back in the late 80s, shot the DCM clinic at Camp Perry and got into Service Rifle competitions in the early 90s. Bought my first AR, a "factory gun" in 1992. It was a Bushmaster National Match model, which I used in service rifle competitions. I've been building and messing around with them ever since. I would say unless you are in law enforcement or the military, most of the accessories and modifications available for the basic platform are unnecessary for typical "civilian" shooting. If you are planning to do some serious long range shooting, then you might be looking at long bull barrels, and other specialized pieces/parts. But until you have some experience and see what the "needs" might be, no need to overthink/overbuild a gun and put a bunch of fluff on it you might not need or use.

[okdonk]

If i were you get i'd def this..

BCM Upper $439 plus shipping..
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-1...urg-mid-16.htm

BCM Lower $395 plus shipping..
https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sh...roduct_id=3413

Put on the $30 ish Magpul MOE handguard on the upper.
So approx you will be spending just almost $900.
Then you just need to get a red dot (Vortex StrikeFire) and Magpul MBUS PRO sights set.

Total can be lower if you get other brand complete lower.

The SALE on BCM uppers are insane! Best sale they ever have.

[GaSwamper]

I was just like you at one time coming from primarily hunting guns the AR can get confusing with all the diff. options. Beauty of the AR though, you can build it exactly the way you want it. If you do build I suggest hit the gunshops, feel as many different configs as possible for your personal fit pref. Other than fit remember the heart of the rifle bolt or BCG, barrel, and trigger put your cash here, the rest is vanity.

[camomike]

Currently I'm building out about a $2500 rifle. Did I need to spend that much? no. Do I have top tier parts in it? yes. Is their any guarantee the rifle is going to work flawlessly? no. Every time you build you are making educated guesses about what parts are going to work well together. When you fail, you end up with spare parts that you end up cycling into new builds. After experience and handling you start to figure out what will work, and what won't. The rifle I like to shoot the most was the second one I owned/built-cost me $500 and came out of Palmetto State Armory. I got lucky on a black Friday deal. It's more accurate than I am, and I don't feel bad about beating the S#$% out of it.

As other have said think about the style of shooting you will do, buy a complete one first. You WILL save money over building one by yourself(tool cost adds up) But after shooting for a while you'll start to figure out what you like and what you don't. The draw is how mod-able and custom-able the platform is. One of the biggest benefits of building is figuring out how every thing works internally. It allows you to diagnose malfunctions and issues the rifle/pistol might be having, Can sometimes save a range trip.

The funny thing is how many times I have heard people(15-20 years experience with the platform) say how they tried all the bells, whistles and fads; Only to end up with a KISS basic carbine build and go back to fundamentals. Save money, buy ammo to shoot.

[tactical]

+1 on buying a factory rifle for your first AR. First learn how to shoot it correctly (i.e. take a good hands-on training class). Next learn how to handle malfunctions (i.e. take a good hands-on training class). Once you get "used" to it, you'll start thinking "hmm, maybe I need an ambi charging handle for off-hand shooting". Then go ahead and replace it. "Maybe I want to try a vertical grip for CQB, but I'll need a longer free float rail for that". Then go ahead and replace it. Next thing you know, you've replaced half the parts in your rifle, but it will be perfect FOR YOU and you'll have a decent understanding of how everything flows together.

That said, for your first build, buying a complete upper is a good idea. It's not that hard to assemble your own (if you have the right tools) but spending all that time to tap your barrel and getting that gas block lined up perfectly only to realize your rail won't fit over it is infuriating!

[Uffdaphil]

Agree on the Colt 6920 if you decide on a complete factory rifle. You can't beat the QC for the current price. But since you sound like you prefer some customization, I would go with a factory upper and build a quality lower. Not billet for first time out. BCM is my favorite with Mega "Gator" a close, cheaper second. A 16" for range and ease of changing muzzle device if desired. Mid length gas system and Vltor A5 buffer system for smooth action. The new BCM ELW barrels with KMR rails are amazingly light. Many other variations too, currently includes free BCG.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15...ge=1&brand=BCM

Hammer forged, coated BCG, fluting are options many prefer but small improvements for the cost.

[WHSmithIV]

I couldn't afford to buy one outright. Couldn't afford a complete upper or lower either. So, I built one piece by piece until I had it finished. My total cost for the basic rifle with the A.R.M.S flip up sights came in at $506.62 and it works fine. Part of the appeal of the AR is that they are so easy to build. You can buy a complete lower and a complete upper and a Bolt Carrier Group. Stick the BCG in and put the two pins in that hold the upper and lower together then off to the races you go. That's the easy way. Or you can just buy a complete one. Mostly it's all a case of money
.

[FortTom]

...... Part of the appeal of the AR is that they are so easy to build. You can buy a complete lower and a complete upper and a Bolt Carrier Group. Stick the BCG in and put the two pins in that hold the upper and lower together then off to the races you go.

Your definition of a "build" and mine are pretty far apart. Taking a lower and upper and sticking in a BCG does not, in my opinion, equate to a 'build", it even falls short of a proper field strip for cleaning and maintenance.

[WHSmithIV]

Your definition of a "build" and mine are pretty far apart. Taking a lower and upper and sticking in a BCG does not, in my opinion, equate to a 'build", it even falls short of a proper field strip for cleaning and maintenance.

I don't consider buying an upper, lower and a BCG building an AR either. All I was pointing out is that someone 'can' put one together that way and get something that is more what they want than an off the shelf AR with a plastic handguard and an A2 front sight.

I personally wouldn't do that. I built mine from a stripped lower receiver and a stripped upper receiver. Me personal belief is that if you are going 'build' one then do so and do it right. This was my first AR I've ever owned and even though I did fire M16's in the Navy it was a lot different actually putting every single part in it. Plus, I built it the way I wanted it to be. So, i suspect that your definition of 'build' and mine are probably the same. I've seen so many posts from guys stating 'This is my first build' .. such and such a complete lower and such and such a complete upper. Well, they didn't 'build' anything.