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  1. #46
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    My money is on this round going nowhere. It does nothing better than what's currently available and has no big money backer.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    My money is on this round going nowhere. It does nothing better than what's currently available and has no big money backer.
    It should have a higher muzzle velocity than 300BLK so expansion should be more reliable and/or less dependent on bullet design. Higher velocity should mean flatter trajectory although the Wolverine still isn't going to be anything extraordinary in this regard.

    The smaller bullet diameter means the cartridges should stack better in a standard AR mag. Mags shouldn't need adjustment or shaving as is something needed with 7.62X40WT.

    All this is beneficial on paper. How these benefits translate on the range is unproven. To me at least.

    You're probably right about the cartridge not going anywhere. But none of the AR wildcats have gone anywhere. 300BLK enjoys a somewhat popular stance right now but interest seems to have faded from where it was just a couple years ago. Same for the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel. Cheap ammo is certainly a factor. Until Tula starts making 300BLK that's priced like 223 or 7.62X39 none of these cartridges will "catch on" like they could. And while steel cased blasting ammo is available for the Grendel I don't think that crowd is too interested in cheap relatively inaccurate hosing ammo.

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    Last edited by usbp379; 21 April 2017 at 10:36.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by usbp379 View Post
    I guess I'm in the same boat. But some reloading supplies are becoming regularly available so I'm hoping to get back at it.

    How did the 277 and 300 shoot side by side? Any real difference or just numbers on paper?

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    You've got 3 years to stockpile. Who knows what's gonna happen in 2020.

    I really like the sound of the .277, but 6.8 SPC had a much larger following and it's petering out it seems like. Parts less and less available...to me it feels like if you want a middle ground between .223 and .308, go with 300BLK or 7.62x39

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    ..go with 300BLK or 7.62x39
    I have those calibers pretty well covered although I don't have an AR in 7.62X39.

    We'll see what the 277 does. I have located a used barrel and some brass. I have some 6.8 bullets onhand. Now I just need to find a deal on some reloading dies.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    My money is on this round going nowhere. It does nothing better than what's currently available and has no big money backer.


    Don't tell the barrel spinners that... it's keeping them plenty busy and the cartridge is growing in popularity, not the other way around. We recently released the prints, too. So, you will soon see others offering barrels and such once their tooling comes in.

    So, I'll take your bet, publicly. $100.00 says it's still here in another 5 years and doing well? The cartridge is only 4 years old and growing faster than just about any other Wildcat has in the past.

    The big money backers will be coming.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDWS View Post
    Don't tell the barrel spinners that... it's keeping them plenty busy and the cartridge is growing in popularity, not the other way around. We recently released the prints, too. So, you will soon see others offering barrels and such once their tooling comes in.

    So, I'll take your bet, publicly. $100.00 says it's still here in another 5 years and doing well? The cartridge is only 4 years old and growing faster than just about any other Wildcat has in the past.

    The big money backers will be coming.
    Have you had any bites on pre-made ammo? Not everyone is equipped or interested in chopping 223 cases and handloading. What about factory brass at least?

    Those items right there will certainly help with sales as long as prices aren't outrageous.

    And if you can get someone like CMMG to make uppers and Ballistic Advantage or Faxon to make barrels I think you'll be more than well on your way to market stability.

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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by usbp379 View Post
    Have you had any bites on pre-made ammo? Not everyone is equipped or interested in chopping 223 cases and handloading. What about factory brass at least?

    Those items right there will certainly help with sales as long as prices aren't outrageous.

    And if you can get someone like CMMG to make uppers and Ballistic Advantage or Faxon to make barrels I think you'll be more than well on your way to market stability.

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    There are two companies that make ammunition already. JB's Firearms out of Wisconsin and Outdoor Shooter Supply out of Oklahoma. Both offer ready to load brass as well. It doesn't have its own headstamp yet because it hasn't been forced to... which is one of the steps toward SAAMI registration. Most folks prefer the cheap, plentiful, converted LC cases. However, you are right... if some of those other folks get on board it will grow even faster. The SAAMI thing is holding it up right now, nothing more. But, that will change soon, too.

  8. #53
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    I understand that part of the fun of shooting a wildcat is converting the brass. But not everyone enjoys reloading from what I'm told...

    Have you looked at doing a run of 277 headstamped brass from either JAG or Starline? I suppose depending on the quantity needed for a production run you could either sell the brass on your website in bulk quantities or see about a group buy deal. Maybe these two commercial reloading shops would want some factory headstamped brass too.

    Can you comment on the SAAMI approval process? I think we all sort of envision guys in white lab coats and hard hats carrying clipboards around. But is SAAMI an actual testing facility or more like a panel or committee of industry and trade people who review and agree on specs, etc?




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    Last edited by usbp379; 10 May 2017 at 01:39.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDWS View Post
    Don't tell the barrel spinners that... it's keeping them plenty busy and the cartridge is growing in popularity, not the other way around. We recently released the prints, too. So, you will soon see others offering barrels and such once their tooling comes in.

    So, I'll take your bet, publicly. $100.00 says it's still here in another 5 years and doing well? The cartridge is only 4 years old and growing faster than just about any other Wildcat has in the past.

    The big money backers will be coming.
    I'll take that bet but by going somewhere I do not mean another wildcat surviving on a few hand loaders. If 2 major ammo companies start selling head stamped .277 in the next 5 years I'll pay.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    I'll take that bet but by going somewhere I do not mean another wildcat surviving on a few hand loaders. If 2 major ammo companies start selling head stamped .277 in the next 5 years I'll pay.
    I actually think 300 BLK is still having a hard time getting traction. Unless you're using a short barrel or suppressed where cartridges like 300 really shine, you don't get much benefit. This requirement automatically eliminates many shooters from adopting the round.

    I think .277 is going to have a big hill to climb.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    I actually think 300 BLK is still having a hard time getting traction. Unless you're using a short barrel or suppressed where cartridges like 300 really shine, you don't get much benefit. This requirement automatically eliminates many shooters from adopting the round.

    I think .277 is going to have a big hill to climb.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. Any wildcat will have a monstrous hill to climb to overcome the popularity of the 223 Remington. That cartridge has proven itself to be accurate, effective and affordable. It does probably 90% of what the shooting public wants or needs.

    As I understand it the 300BLK came to be when certain clandestine military units were looking for a cartridge and firearm that was quiet like the MP5SD but with improved performance at distance. It does this quite well as a suppressed SBR. It also turns out that the 300BLK is pretty decent with supersonic ammo from a 16in barrel. The 110gr Barnes is probably the best choice in this regard and would make a dandy police rifle cartridge. JD Jones is reported to have said that his 300 Whisper was always supposed to be about supers and subs and the versatility of both.

    Of course the downside is the 300BLK is expensive to shoot and/or the performance sucks with the wrong bullets. Shooting 220gr Match Kings at 1000fps is a waste of high quality match bullets. Bullets that bulk reloaders use for range ammo like the 147gr FMJ are too slow to have much of a useful trajectory. Bullets like the Speer TNT and Sierra Pro Hunters are my favorites for blasting and general all around use. But even these bullets are fairly expensive and probably don't work well on anything bigger than coyotes. But even at its fastest the Blackout can't do more than 2350-2400 fps with the fastest loadings. Lehigh's 78gr ammo not withstanding.

    The Wolverine potentially addresses some of the supersonic ballistic shortcomings of the Blackout by using a smaller and lighter projectile and a slightly longer case. The 277 should actually drive a 90gr bullet at sufficient velocity to expand at distance and shouldn't require the shooter to be terribly concerned with his holdovers at distance. Flatter shooting and better expansion should mean deader coyotes or pigs at slightly longer distance. Downside here, like the 300, is lack of relatively inexpensive bullets although there are bullets made for the 6.8 SPC that should work okay at Wolverine speeds.

    This is just my take on things. I do have quite a bit of rounds downrange from the 300 but haven't done anything yet with the Wolverine. With all this said I could find that the Wolverine doesn't really do much more than the Blackout and is best for shooting to about 200 yards max.

    I would like to note that the Blackout and Wolverine both mimic the 8mm Kürz ballistically. As y'all know the 8mm was Nazi Germany's approach to the long range machine pistol. It was the cartridge that started it all. I wonder how the Western firearms world would look now if the US had looked at something like the Kurz after WWII. Would we now be looking at taking our 30-06 Ultrashort and necking it down to .22cal as a "fighting" cartridge?

    Anyway I apologize for the long rambling post...

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    Last edited by usbp379; 11 May 2017 at 10:08.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post

    I think .277 is going to have a big hill to climb.
    I've got good boots on and a drive stronger than 1,000 cattle.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDWS View Post
    I've got good boots on and a drive stronger than 1,000 cattle.
    I believe you have the drive no doubt.

    Stick's giveaway was over 2 years ago. Since then I haven't heard a peep about .277, and I feel like I keep in touch with the industry. Dstrbdmedic who was the only guy I knew that even had a .277 has already abandoned the cartridge. Granted I haven't been specifically paying attention to .277. I'll be keeping tabs on this.

  14. #59
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    I left it due to lack of time to shoot and reload for it. I still love the cartridge itself. It was always one of my best and funniest shooting cartridges. The 90gr TNT's would just scream. If it does take off and get more commercial ammo vendors on the game I'd be all for adding it back.


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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dstrbdmedic167 View Post
    I left it due to lack of time to shoot and reload for it. I still love the cartridge itself.
    What was your pet load for the TNTs? Same question for 150gr subsonic.



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