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  1. #16
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    Thanks for so many replies! You guys are just awesome.

    Now let me preface my comment with this: I am trying to learn, not be facetious. I am sure just about any half decent barrel would be fine for my target range so it could appear to some that I am over thinking this deal.

    Here are some barrels that I have narrowed it down to... and I am wondering (or rather thinking out loud) on pros and cons.

    Mega 556 16 inch barrel... (as stated above this is probably more of an accurate barrel, but then again we aren't even considering shooter error. (Accurate barrel in amateur hands isn't an accurate barrel)
    1:8 twist

    Rainier Select 16 inch
    1:8 polygonal twist

    Rainier Arms Mountain 16 inch
    1:7 twist

    I am price aware but I am not overly price sensitive. I won't pay $500 for a name brand, when I can get sort of similar results considering my skill level for $300. That said from what I understand a 1:8 twist is a decent medium that effectively stabilizes most of the ammo you get off the shelf. Truth be told when I started I was hell bent on a 1:7 twist because I thought (errantly) that it was superior. That said I am still not 100% sure on the real performance difference (assuming same ammo etc etc) between a 1:8 and a 1:7 twist.

    I have also heard that polygonal rifling is also somewhat better, but I am not sure if it really is slightly more durable than the stiff ridges, peaks, and edges of traditional rifling. I mean does it "really" make that much difference in the short term or even over time of shooting?

    As of right now the mega is in there because of the recommendation from above, and it's price point isn't that bad. I am kind of leaning more towards the rainier select polygonal rifling barrel...

    The Mountain series is a mystery still. Is it simply just a much more hard use barrel designed say for gun ranges where a barrel will see A LOT of action? 1000 rounds a day 5 days a week can wear out anything... is that more of the 'sphere' of the mountain series???

  2. #17
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    I'll throw a monkey in your wrench and add another maker that I consider a excellent barrel maker. AR Performance makes excellent barrels. I have several in different calibers and all are Sub MOA if I do my part and most of the time still are even if I don't. He uses a 223 Wylde chamber on his barrels. Just another one for thought b

  3. #18
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    Look at it this way.. How many rounds a year do you think you'll send down the barrel? 500? 1000? If you figure 1000 rounds a year, then a barrel good for 5000 rounds is going to last at least 5 years. A melonite / nitrided barrel is good for at least 10,000 rounds.

    Since 'most' of the ammo you get off the shelf will be 55 grain bullets which are ideally suited for 1:9 twist rate, then you're best off to get a 1:8 twist barrel because it will shoot those 55 grain bullets just fine and also shoot bullets up to 75 or 77 grain weight just fine. The 1:7 twist barrels are best suited for bullets 62 grain in weight and above. That is not the most available off the shelf ammo though. A 1:7 twist barrel over spins a 55 grain bullet and it begins to become unstable in flight over distance. At 50 -100 yards it won't matter, going beyond the 100 yard mark though is where the wobbling starts to kick in for an overspun bullet.

    1:8 twist is really the best choice because it stabilizes the widest range of bullet weights.

    For the rifling, I doubt that polygon rifling is going to make much of a difference for the number of rounds you'll put through the barrel over the next 10 years. If you get a 1:8 twist melonited or nitrided barrel you're not likely to shoot the barrel out in the next 10 years. (melonite and nitride are the same process, they just vary a little with the acids used and there is no appreciable difference between either process - it has to do more with how a company sets up the chemical processing operation to put a barrel in the bath - the molecular change to the surface of the metal is pretty much identical in both processes).

    So, don't go overboard with spending on your barrel, just get a good nitrided one in 1:8 twist is my recommendation. Granted, you can do what you want. It's your money and it's your gun you are building.
    Freedom is NEVER Free. We have to work to protect it and even be willing to die to protect it.

  4. #19
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    Barrels...and other parts

    One thing I didn't see noted. I know you said you wanted a 5.56 chamber and not a .223 chamber. Don't get the wrong idea here; 5.56 can still be shot from a .223 wylde, which is what most match barrels use. I recently bought a Black Hole Weaponry barrel for my SPR. 18", poly grooved, wylde chamber. Even though I've only shot it once it's my favorite gun. Something about that rifle just feels right to me compared to the other ones. Not to say the components I used in my other guns are sub par, I just feel and attachment to this one.

    ETA: Rainier select barrels are made by Black Hole Weaponry, just without the Wylde chamber. I'm by no means a great shooter, but I'm pretty happy with the results I got from my first day out with this rifle. With better ammo and more time behind it I'm certain it will shoot quarter, if not smaller, sized groups.
    Last edited by Ride4frnt; 23 October 2014 at 16:12.

  5. #20
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    A Cold Hammer Forged or quality button rifled barrel will easily provide 20-25k round service life. 10k or less on a stainless barrel.

    Something to think about if you have 1 or 2 AR's and you take a class or two that run 1000-1200 rounds in 3 days. Couple that with a few 1k round days at the range, and the round count goes up quickly. If you stick with the platform long enough, I'm sure you'll have at least one of each.

  6. #21
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    I think a Rainier Select Match medium contour (Medcon) barrel would be right up your alley. Not too expensive but superbly accurate given the shooter and the ammo work together. I run a 16" Select Match (not the MedCon...they are a hair lighter than the regular profile Select barrels I don't see on Rainier's site anymore) and get GREAT results with all weights of my handloaded ammo. I need to scrounge up some grouping targets. I even shot solid 1 MOA groups with PMC XTAC 62gr green tip.

    For your purposes I don't think the performance increase and the extra $130 for an Ultra Match is going to be worth it for you

    http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=3279

    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    My "purpose" more than anything is to simply enjoy shooting sports. I am not a cop. I am not a soldier (I was unable to enlist due to a serious injury)... I live in the country and we all get together and shoot for fun. I am a far cry from some top secret operator, but more like a skeet shooter who wants to expand my horizons. That said I personally try to take my own shooting beyond the whole plinking of tin cans off the fence. I like hunting just as much as the next guy but the AR won't be for hunting. I have been invited more than once to be on shooting teams (amateur) so at some point I might give 3 gun a try.

    Part of the reason why I haven't jumped into AR's before now is because it never really had that 'definition'. all in all it will be for fun. I do live in the country though so there is a chance for varmint/coyote/pig shooting etc, although later I might go for an AR10 for the pig thing.

    The part that I enjoy about shooting isn't just making a bunch of racket and being satisfied hitting a frisbee. I like the science behind it. It wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility for me to give in and run a 3 gun course. Who knows until I try.

    And of course there is always the prospect of home defense. But for sheer enjoyment it would probably be an 'accurate' plinker. But, I would probably keep all the rest of that stuff in mind.

    On average (seeing how I can walk out into the back yard and shoot) I might go through anywhere between a magazine or two per week. If we have an event (IE BBQ/Skeet shoot/fun time out) I might go through 10 mags in an afternoon...

    Don't make the assumption that I am some hotshot gunner... I am just doing this stuff for fun...That said every once in a while we do have some of the local cops out to the house and they shoot with us...just for fun...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHSmithIV View Post
    Look at it this way.. How many rounds a year do you think you'll send down the barrel? 500? 1000? If you figure 1000 rounds a year, then a barrel good for 5000 rounds is going to last at least 5 years. A melonite / nitrided barrel is good for at least 10,000 rounds.

    Since 'most' of the ammo you get off the shelf will be 55 grain bullets which are ideally suited for 1:9 twist rate, then you're best off to get a 1:8 twist barrel because it will shoot those 55 grain bullets just fine and also shoot bullets up to 75 or 77 grain weight just fine. The 1:7 twist barrels are best suited for bullets 62 grain in weight and above. That is not the most available off the shelf ammo though. A 1:7 twist barrel over spins a 55 grain bullet and it begins to become unstable in flight over distance. At 50 -100 yards it won't matter, going beyond the 100 yard mark though is where the wobbling starts to kick in for an overspun bullet.

    1:8 twist is really the best choice because it stabilizes the widest range of bullet weights.

    For the rifling, I doubt that polygon rifling is going to make much of a difference for the number of rounds you'll put through the barrel over the next 10 years. If you get a 1:8 twist melonited or nitrided barrel you're not likely to shoot the barrel out in the next 10 years. (melonite and nitride are the same process, they just vary a little with the acids used and there is no appreciable difference between either process - it has to do more with how a company sets up the chemical processing operation to put a barrel in the bath - the molecular change to the surface of the metal is pretty much identical in both processes).

    So, don't go overboard with spending on your barrel, just get a good nitrided one in 1:8 twist is my recommendation. Granted, you can do what you want. It's your money and it's your gun you are building.

    Thank you thank you thank you! This was a very informative reply. In all honesty I would put between 1000 to 2000 rounds per year through the barrel. That would be a pretty accurate estimate.

    The whole logic on the 1:8 twist really does make a lot of sense. Sometimes getting beyond marketing hype and into 'real world....this is my use' kind of thinking is very challenging.

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to shoot 300+ yards, but the cold hard facts are I live in a very very wooded area and the only place you could really get beyond an average of 200 yards is if you (pay) to shoot at a formal gun range. 95% of my shooting is not done indoors (except on rainy days a range up the road is 100 yards indoors)...but most of the time it's really a lot more fun to get the guys together, get a case of ammo and simply have fun with an occassional box of tannerite. I put the 200 yard (average) range on shooting simply because that is what is available. I can shoot 200 yards in the back yard down a fence line... but that's kind of par for most places where we go. I am simply being realistic on that (as I will also do when it comes to an optic)... No need for a 500 yard optic when there will be 300 trees between me and a 500 yard target.

    Another thing that I see when (online) shopping are some barrels are on clearance and the price looks great but then I read the reviews and I see 'this stuff sucks, out of spec' over and over or whatever. Part of the problem that scares me off the AR platform is simply so much marketing hype. Weeding out the bull*** is kind of tough.

    In all reality I am not completely loaded to where I can drop 10 grand, but I am not broke... just a regular guy looking for quality parts that will make my shooting experiences more enjoyable.

    I am not at all brand loyal so to speak (although I am now sort of since CMT gave me an upper) and because I bought a lower from them... but in general I get flustered from the pox of too many choices.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    I think a Rainier Select Match medium contour (Medcon) barrel would be right up your alley. Not too expensive but superbly accurate given the shooter and the ammo work together. I run a 16" Select Match (not the MedCon...they are a hair lighter than the regular profile Select barrels I don't see on Rainier's site anymore) and get GREAT results with all weights of my handloaded ammo.
    This is in fact so far on my short list of barrels that I have been looking at. As I stated before (and if you can't tell) I over think a whole lot of stuff. :)

    I see the prices on there but how am I going to know if I am getting screwed price wise? How will I know (other than sheer name brand) know that I am getting something in spec that will work? I think sticking to major manufacturers in my case is a good deal... I don't mind springing an extra $50 if it means I truly gain something by doing that. On the other hand I am not paying merely for a 'name'.

    Another question I have is barrel contours. I have no idea why they have different contours and if this effects anything. I know some are dimpled, or are fluted to help cool the barrels (more surface area) but for me, I don't think that will make a huge difference for me. Hopefully i don't end up in some fire fight.

    Not trying to sound like an ass, but if I build a decent rifle and I shoot the barrel out 2 years later... I can buy another barrel. It's just like a car. Eventually the windshield wipers wear out. That's routine stuff as far as I am concerned.

    All that said, the overwhelming amount of choices simply scare me away from getting into this stuff. A barrel seems simple, but then again apparently it's not :)

    And don't even get me started on triggers (yet). I want to discuss them too but for now I am staying right on task with the barrel thing until I can flesh that out and be relatively confident that I am not getting screwed over price wise or on something that's not what is right for me.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    A Cold Hammer Forged or quality button rifled barrel will easily provide 20-25k round service life. 10k or less on a stainless barrel.
    That barrel we are discussing (Rainier Select Medcon) says nothing about cold hammer forged...that one is on the short list, but I like the idea of longer life. As I said, I will most likely put 1000-2000 rounds a year if not more through the gun. As soon as I get a better job, more :)

    Do you have any specific options that meet the 1. cold hammer forged 2. black 3. possibly polygonal (but who cares I guess) rifling in a 1:8 twist? (16") And it needs to be from a decent manufacturer... get nervous about off brand stuff. My school of thought is buy quality and that's one less thing to worry about... it doesn't have to be top gear just of decent quality.

    I am not chichy on money, I just want a fair price. I don't want to get screwed, nor do I want to screw anyone else over. A fair price is mandatory.
    Last edited by alamo5000; 23 October 2014 at 19:16.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    Centurion makes top notch stuff, but you should also look at the Rainier Mountain series barrels. Similar specs for about the same price. Lower if you find them on sale.
    I will take a look. Rainier has never done me wrong and if their up to par with the Centurion I will have a look. Thank you.

  11. #26
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    First off, there is nothing wrong with doing the research and asking a lot of questions. You will be less likely to regret a purchase and be happier overall with the rifle you've built EXACTLY to your standards, and if you do need to re-evaluate a part after you get it and use it, then you'll have a better idea of which direction to go. Also, you'll be better equipped mentally for future builds based on your requirements and also be able to help future AR beginners, whether they are forum members or friends/family.

    As far as barrels go, the MEDCON (not to sound stupid) is a happy medium between light/pencil barrels and heavy/HBAR profile barrels. Heavier barrels are more rigid and heat up more slowly during higher rates of fire. In terms of rigidity, think of hanging a suppressor on the end of a light vs heavy barrel. You'll likely get more "sag" with the pencil barrel and see a greater effect on POI shift than the heavier barrel. The MEDCON is a compromise.

    With fluting/dimpling, it's a way to shave off weight while increasing surface area for cooling while retaining rigidity. As far as dimpling goes, you'll probably pay a premium for it, and if you are getting the rifle down and dirty and are a really picky about cleaning...you'll be going to town on that thing with a toothbrush lol

    Don't let the amount of choices scare you. Just look for what meets your needs and your budget, but don't forget: unless it's on sale, you usually get what you pay for in this industry. I am a firm believer in "buy once, cry once" in the firearms world...also, the respected names out there will take care of you in the unlikely chance something is wrong with their product. I'd rather buy the $250 Rainier barrel once then try to skimp out on a $90 bargain basement model...and end up buying the Rainier barrel a couple months later. I also look at it like my ARs, despite being "match"/precision setups or hunting rifles may also be tasked to defend my life at some point. That's not the time I want to wonder if my gear is going to hold out (not that it applies to this conversation...just food for thought).

    Also, it may be hard to find a barrel that meets all your criteria from the previous post AND it be a 1:8 twist. I don't know if I've seen a 1:8 barrel that wasn't stainless steel.


    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    This is in fact so far on my short list of barrels that I have been looking at. As I stated before (and if you can't tell) I over think a whole lot of stuff. :)

    I see the prices on there but how am I going to know if I am getting screwed price wise? How will I know (other than sheer name brand) know that I am getting something in spec that will work? I think sticking to major manufacturers in my case is a good deal... I don't mind springing an extra $50 if it means I truly gain something by doing that. On the other hand I am not paying merely for a 'name'.

    Another question I have is barrel contours. I have no idea why they have different contours and if this effects anything. I know some are dimpled, or are fluted to help cool the barrels (more surface area) but for me, I don't think that will make a huge difference for me. Hopefully i don't end up in some fire fight.

    Not trying to sound like an ass, but if I build a decent rifle and I shoot the barrel out 2 years later... I can buy another barrel. It's just like a car. Eventually the windshield wipers wear out. That's routine stuff as far as I am concerned.

    All that said, the overwhelming amount of choices simply scare me away from getting into this stuff. A barrel seems simple, but then again apparently it's not :)

    And don't even get me started on triggers (yet). I want to discuss them too but for now I am staying right on task with the barrel thing until I can flesh that out and be relatively confident that I am not getting screwed over price wise or on something that's not what is right for me.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannosaur View Post
    I will take a look. Rainier has never done me wrong and if their up to par with the Centurion I will have a look. Thank you.
    Never had a problem with Rainier. They have some of the fairest prices in the industry, and personally I don't think you can do a whole lot better than their select barrels in that price range.

  13. #28
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    OK I'm back again... here's maybe a dumb question but a question none the less. It's been advised that a 1:8 twist will be fine for my purposes. I have found several ones made of stainless that would work just fine I am sure.

    My question though is why can't I seem to find a 1:8 cold hammer forged barrel (in black) anywhere? Are those some kind of rare barrel or something?

    I am sure if I shoot out the stainless barrel I could just replace the thing but if I wanted one with longer life... in that twist rate... is there any reason why 1:7 is more common and 1:9 is most cheap (and common)?

    Why can't I seem to find a 1:8 cold hammer forged black 16 inch barrel?

  14. #29
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    Not to give you a smart answer, but economics. 1:8 twists are usually enjoyed by those who use them but the majority of people just opt for the 1:7 for most uses, being NATO/milspec, people either use them for heavy match bullets or are just satisfied with the off the shelf performance of guns they buy using factory ammo (this crowd also would use a 1:9 if their rifle came with it in most cases) so there isn't as much of a demand for it. And demand is what drives what they put out. A few years ago I was looking for 1:8 barrels and they were harder to find outside of 24" length then they are now.

  15. #30
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    I am not going super cheap but I am also not trying to break the bank.... it is what it is... it's a hobby and I like it.

    Here are some parts that I am considering... that way you can see what I have in mind...

    I have a CMT billet lower in the mail to me now. I won a CMT upper here.

    I would like this:

    https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sh...roduct_id=3784


    If I can find it, this:

    http://www.ar15news.com/2014/08/13/n...ies-combo-kit/

    Probably this barrel (in black):

    https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sh...roduct_id=3279

    And maybe one of these gas blocks (not sure if that's the right one for that barrel or not)

    https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sh...roduct_id=1872

    So far that's kind of where I am headed here....

    And keep in mind I am going to be asking Santa for some of these parts to keep my costs down...

    but that's the direction... I haven't figured out the trigger yet....

    part of my problem is I am kind of going in blind. I don't know if I am gonna get robbed or get a good deal or not. It's sort of like the anxiety of buying a car. Yeah, I like the car... but flying blind I am not sure if I am getting the best prices. Or even if I am getting the right stuff.... In my mind I pretty much have a picture in my mind, I am just anxious.
    Last edited by alamo5000; 24 October 2014 at 22:28.

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