Upper Question

[alamo5000]

I know I have another thread going on right now but I have a bunch of questions. I promise I am not trying to be a pain in the @ss I am simply trying to learn as I am pretty new (as in very new) to the AR platform.

I am used to seeing regular uppers with the forward assist button. From all that I have read online and making some of my own assumptions most people never touch theirs. From what I could kind of piece together the forward assist is designed more for military applications where say for example one is in the middle of a firefight and the weapon is dirty as hell and they may need to 'assist' the bolt to the full lock position.

Right? Wrong? From what I have read here and elsewhere most people, especially in average civillian use don't ever use it. Fair enough.

Now though the uppers (again this is for my understanding and nothing else) (I want to make sure I don't have to rethink my build) that don't have brass deflectors built on them... what is the reasoning and logic there?

From what I have gathered as a right handed shooter (as I am) it won't make one hill of beans difference in performance, but if a left handed shooter tries it they might get a face full of brass. Upon looking at the various uppers 'slick side' uppers...I am not sure why or why not one would leave off a brass deflector? I am asking for someone who is way more versed than I am to help me understand.

I mean I can get the fact of leaving the forward assist off... in fact I really like that idea of not having that on there... less moving parts, more simple, is better in my book. Plus I am pretty finatical about caring for my weapons. If you take care of it it will take care of you. Not saying you can't use it hard, but there is such a thing as proper care and seeing how I have zero military or LEO use for the weapon it just makes sense to not worry about it as much. But on the other part I am not sure the design intention or if it even makes any difference.

For what it's worth the slick side uppers look pretty cool if you ask me... but I just don't quite gather the logic behind the design. Is it simply KISS (keep it simple) or is it some other type of reasoning?

I am a big fan of simplicity. The less parts the better. Less stuff to break. But I am hoping someone here with more expertise will share some insight as to one design vs the other.

[WHSmithIV]

Mostly the slick side uppers are for simplicity and to reduce cost. The forward assist wasn't in the original design of the M16. It was added because the Army wanted it added. I don't know anyone who has ever actually had to use it. I do prefer to have a dust cover though. The Phase 5 billet upper doesn''t include the forward assist, but it does have the dust cover and the brass deflector.

With the .223, the brass deflector generally doesn't get hit with empty casings getting ejected, with .300 blackout it does though and quite likely some of the other calibers. I'll be able to let people know with the 7.62x39 cartridges when I finish my pistol build in that caliber.

[alamo5000]

Mostly the slick side uppers are for simplicity and to reduce cost. The forward assist wasn't in the original design of the M16. It was added because the Army wanted it added. I don't know anyone who has ever actually had to use it. I do prefer to have a dust cover though. The Phase 5 billet upper doesn''t include the forward assist, but it does have the dust cover and the brass deflector.

With the .223, the brass deflector generally doesn't get hit with empty casings getting ejected, with .300 blackout it does though and quite likely some of the other calibers. I'll be able to let people know with the 7.62x39 cartridges when I finish my pistol build in that caliber.

My upper that I won is a slick side with the dust cover and no brass deflector or forward assist. Truth be told it looks pretty darn bad @ss. I like it. I just never saw an upper like that before and was sort of thrown for a loop if I needed to rethink what I am doing or not.

Like I keep on saying, simple is better. I like simple. Less moving parts = less stuff broken. At very least the brass deflector with 5.56/ .223 is pretty cosmetic then?

Don't get me wrong, I like it by all means... I bought a matching billlet lower and am now agonizing over other parts to get (hence all the threads asking questions picking old timer's brains)... it just more or less threw a new one at me.

I've heard of the whole 'forward assist' debate but never one on the brass deflector... oh well, my AR is gonna be awesome however it goes. There will be many like it, but this one will be mine :) (to quote a famous movie)...

[Ride4frnt]

I wouldn't much worry about it with 5.56. Look at it this way. CMT is a major player in the billet receiver market, very highly regarded around this forum (have one myself). If the brass deflector was a must have on an upper, they wouldn't offer a model without them.

[alamo5000]

I wouldn't much worry about t with 5.56. Look at it this way. CMT is a major player in the billet receiver market, very highly regarded around this forum (have one myself). If the bras deflector was a must have on an upper, they wouldn't offer a model without them.

Oh yes, I agree. I am not worried (about that) in the slightest. It's more a matter of my UNDERSTANDING of the logic behind thing. I am pretty analytical in my thinking. I am hard wired that way. I need to know how and why stuff works the way it works. It's just a fault of mine :)

It's just friggin amazing.... (the upper) I got... I like it a lot. I can't say thank you enough about it. I am still on cloud 9 over winning anything at all.

The parts I have been worrying over (see my other thread) has been on barrels... and I haven't gotten to triggers yet...I have preconcieved notions but those might get all shot to hell just like some of my idea about barrels were :)... but that's ok... I am here soaking up the know how and wisdom...

[WHSmithIV]

... oh well, my AR is gonna be awesome however it goes. There will be many like it, but this one will be mine :) (to quote a famous movie)...

Hear hear with that sentiment

[Ride4frnt]

Oh yes, I agree. I am not worried (about that) in the slightest. It's more a matter of my UNDERSTANDING of the logic behind thing. I am pretty analytical in my thinking. I am hard wired that way. I need to know how and why stuff works the way it works. It's just a fault of mine :)

It's just friggin amazing.... (the upper) I got... I like it a lot. I can't say thank you enough about it. I am still on cloud 9 over winning anything at all.

The parts I have been worrying over (see my other thread) has been on barrels... and I haven't gotten to triggers yet...I have preconcieved notions but those might get all shot to hell just like some of my idea about barrels were :)... but that's ok... I am here soaking up the know how and wisdom...

I cannot stress the trigger enough. Invest in something better than milspec, you won't regret it. ALG makes some nice lower priced triggers, basically upgraded milspec. CMC single stage, geissele, etc.

[WHSmithIV]

It's actually not really necessary to invest extra bucks much in a trigger. There are some things you can do with a mil-spec trigger yourself that will make it MUCH better. It's not hard either. Get some 0000 steel wool and happily sit at home and polish up all the mating surfaces. Do them well to remove any slightest imperfections. Then, get a set of upgraded springs. You can bring a milspec trigger with a 6lb. pull weight down to 4.5-5 lbs. and have it be nice and crisp doing this and the better springs will only cost about $20.

[alamo5000]

I cannot stress the trigger enough. Invest in something better than milspec, you won't regret it. ALG makes some nice lower priced triggers, basically upgraded milspec. CMC single stage, geissele, etc.

Please check out my thread here about triggers. I just posted it up... seriously. So far I am weeding through my most major concerns one by one... and you guys are great.

[Former11B]

My upper that I won is a slick side with the dust cover and no brass deflector or forward assist. Truth be told it looks pretty darn bad @ss. I like it. I just never saw an upper like that before and was sort of thrown for a loop if I needed to rethink what I am doing or not.

Like I keep on saying, simple is better. I like simple. Less moving parts = less stuff broken. At very least the brass deflector with 5.56/ .223 is pretty cosmetic then?

Don't get me wrong, I like it by all means... I bought a matching billlet lower and am now agonizing over other parts to get (hence all the threads asking questions picking old timer's brains)... it just more or less threw a new one at me.

I've heard of the whole 'forward assist' debate but never one on the brass deflector... oh well, my AR is gonna be awesome however it goes. There will be many like it, but this one will be mine :) (to quote a famous movie)...

The forward assist isn't really a moving part. It just sits there, out of the way, until you need it.

I am in the habit of bumping mine every time I chamber a round, just to ensure the bolt has gone into battery all the way. Just an old Army BRM thing. And I wouldn't say a firefight is the sole requirement of needing one if you ever go to a high-round count training session, your rifle could be subject to the same conditions. All the same, if your upper doesn't have one and you want to check battery, just push your thumb forward into the scalloped portion of the bolt carrier. Too easy.

Mostly the slick side uppers are for simplicity and to reduce cost. The forward assist wasn't in the original design of the M16. It was added because the Army wanted it added. I don't know anyone who has ever actually had to use it. I do prefer to have a dust cover though. The Phase 5 billet upper doesn''t include the forward assist, but it does have the dust cover and the brass deflector.

With the .223, the brass deflector generally doesn't get hit with empty casings getting ejected, with .300 blackout it does though and quite likely some of the other calibers. I'll be able to let people know with the 7.62x39 cartridges when I finish my pistol build in that caliber.

I respectfully disagree about the case deflector and .223. Every range trip on my ARs they have brass markings on them. I run suppressed 99.9% of the time so that may affect ejection pattern, but they DO get hit.

[alamo5000]

I respectfully disagree about the case deflector and .223. Every range trip on my ARs they have brass markings on them. I run suppressed 99.9% of the time so that may affect ejection pattern, but they DO get hit.

As long as the shells aren't hitting me I am ok. The guy next to me, who cares. :D

[SGT.G]

Mostly the slick side uppers are for simplicity and to reduce cost. The forward assist wasn't in the original design of the M16. It was added because the Army wanted it added. I don't know anyone who has ever actually had to use it. I do prefer to have a dust cover though. The Phase 5 billet upper doesn''t include the forward assist, but it does have the dust cover and the brass deflector.

With the .223, the brass deflector generally doesn't get hit with empty casings getting ejected, with .300 blackout it does though and quite likely some of the other calibers. I'll be able to let people know with the 7.62x39 cartridges when I finish my pistol build in that caliber.

My brass deflector always has brass marks. Also I have used my forward assist on more than one occasion. I take care of my weapons, and probably more anal about cleaning and lubricant than anyone. But then again this was in a combat situation and it saved my life. For a range or safe queen that might be another story, but better to have it and not need it....

[JoshAston]

The forward assist isn't really a moving part. It just sits there, out of the way, until you need it.

Or the pawl snaps off and locks up your rifle.

[alamo5000]

I am still up in the air on this brass deflector thing... the forward assist I simply do not care for it. I don't think it matters for my purposes.

The reason why I am thinking about the brass deflector is, despite the fact that I think the thing looks pretty cool and it could have a very unique look to it when done, I do shoot (often) with two left handed shooters. I am a righty. For me it doesn't matter. I kind of like the look of the deflector, but then again I am not against the 'new' at all. I like to be different.

I guess the only way to settle this thing is to build a second AR.:)

Seriously though the whole no deflector... well if you have ever shot some of the 22 rifles they don't have deflectors and it doesn't matter there... It's just something new that is 'non traditional'...

In the end I guess the people at CMT simply said 'it's not an absolutely essential part so lets leave it off'...the sleek look might be totally killer awesome.... but I simply have never seen a rifle built with a slick side upper like that....

In ways I find it humorous that I am putting so much thought and effort into figuring out all this stuff....I have to sit back and laugh at myself from time to time.

[Ride4frnt]

Personally, I think it looks badass. What I can tell you is that you'll love your upper. I got a UPUR-1 in the last giveaway and it was far more than I expected. It is the first billet set I ever put together, and I thought the forged ones looked good.