OPTICS Question/Suggestions

[alamo5000]

Looks promising along something like this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkQrgECpKRE

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I have a ar optics bushnell 3-12x40. It is decent glass however I had it on my 6.8 and it's currently in the box awaiting shipment to them. I have water spots in the reticles... No Bueno....

[Ride4frnt]

????

The nikon you posted is fixed 3x magnification. At 200yds that's not a lot of magnification. Probably enough to get you to hit paper, but you may want more magnification to hit anything smaller. I've heard some good reviews of the bushnell ar optics. They aren't top of the line but for the money they are decent optics. Check out the revive I posted in my first post in this thread, and watch some of the videos on it on YouTube. I think that scope would do you all for your purposes. $250 from rainier arms.

[alamo5000]

The nikon you posted is fixed 3x magnification. At 200yds that's not a lot of magnification. Probably enough to get you to hit paper, but you may want more magnification to hit anything smaller. I've heard some good reviews of the bushnell ar optics. They aren't top of the line but for the money they are decent optics. Check out the revive I posted in my first post in this thread, and watch some of the videos on it on YouTube. I think that scope would do you all for your purposes. $250 from rainier arms.

I like that one you posted up for sure. It's on the list.

I also like this one too...

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Zone-...cle+Riflescope

It's unlikely I will be taking shots at more that 200 yards... but I am getting it for accuracy (as relative to irons)

I am also trying to figure out if I can have BUIS... I am thinking to buy some canted 45 degree irons as my BUIS and run the scope for most things and have the irons for just in case.

Don't get me wrong, I would love an ACOG but I am not sure if that's what I NEED. I really like the VCOG but the same thing. Plus I am not a billionaire. For my purposes I want a quality scope. I could afford an ACOG without a problem but I am not bent on it. I might get one later but I don't know if that's going to be best for ME.

[alamo5000]

Another fault of mine is I am not fully up to speed on what are considered 'reputable' manufacturers. It was just about killing me buying all the parts for my AR (the stuff is being shipped as we speak)...

When it comes to optics though I am just not that up to speed.

I have a friend who goes to gun shows and he buys stuff... just random crap from the Chinese guy selling junk. I have owned exactly one junk scope. Between him wasting his money and my inheriting a crap scope that came on a rifle I bought from someone.... I want something better rather than worse.

That said there is a line where one pays for some stupid name brand and prestige but does not gain performance. And add to that me not being a professional shooter I don't need something that costs $3000. I need a good quality performer with a willingness to pay more for quality.

I am really wondering though... at 4X power at 200 yards...what kind of magnification are we really talking about here? Just using a random example, an apple at 200 yards with a 4x power... what's a good reference point for that power of scope?

[SGT.G]

Another fault of mine is I am not fully up to speed on what are considered 'reputable' manufacturers. It was just about killing me buying all the parts for my AR (the stuff is being shipped as we speak)...

When it comes to optics though I am just not that up to speed.

I have a friend who goes to gun shows and he buys stuff... just random crap from the Chinese guy selling junk. I have owned exactly one junk scope. Between him wasting his money and my inheriting a crap scope that came on a rifle I bought from someone.... I want something better rather than worse.

That said there is a line where one pays for some stupid name brand and prestige but does not gain performance. And add to that me not being a professional shooter I don't need something that costs $3000. I need a good quality performer with a willingness to pay more for quality.

I am really wondering though... at 4X power at 200 yards...what kind of magnification are we really talking about here? Just using a random example, an apple at 200 yards with a 4x power... what's a good reference point for that power of scope?

I'd say 4x hitting a Apple at 200 is pushing it for a decent shooter imo. Maybe at 8x if skilled.

[Former11B]

Alamo, I am getting mixed signals about what type of PRECISION you are looking to get out of an optic (accuracy comes from you). Part of me thinks you are needing something in a lower-mid power optic that can get you minute of man at 2-300 yards, like for banging steel, and then in other posts I get the feeling you want benchrest performance for <MOA precision.

This image (sorry for the size ) shows the difference in magnification appearance from 5x to 25x


I honestly think this scope from Primary Arms might suit you well, unless you feel like more magnification is required based on your needs.
http://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_A.../pa1-6xrbd.htm
There's a review on it recently on WEVO. It's not a Leupold or Nightforce, but it's a solid scope that will allow you to engage out to 300 yards with confidence.


You mentioned an ACOG. They are fixed power optics with great glass meant to allow a shooter a higher degree of positive effect on man-sized targets (read: people) versus iron sights or RDS. Their reticles are designed to be ranging indicators and their field of view (32-35MM) allows for scanning and observation. They are a true combat optic, not a precision/benchrest riflescope. A good shooter can use them to achieve great groupings at mid ranges but that is not the intent behind the optic. For what it's worth, I love mine. But I have been wanting to get something in the 2-10x range to have for the rifle I run the ACOG on as well, so I can swap out the optics based on the type of shooting I have in mind.

[alamo5000]

Alamo, I am getting mixed signals about what type of PRECISION (not accuracy) you are looking for in an optic.

Don't worry, I am giving myself mixed signals too :) LOL

I don't really know (for sure)... but talking it through helps me understand more of what I DO want.

The more I see, read, listen, and talk to you guys the more of an idea forms in my head.

[Former11B]

Don't worry, I am giving myself mixed signals too :) LOL

I don't really know (for sure)... but talking it through helps me understand more of what I DO want.

The more I see, read, listen, and talk to you guys the more of an idea forms in my head.

Well, think about the direction the RIFLE is going. Is it a benchrest/precision gun, or is it more of a fighting carbine that you'll run through some carbine employment type of courses?

Since your engagement range is sub-300 yarsds, I'd say you're probably more in the latter category. This article may help some:
https://demigodllc.com/articles/figh...for-the-ar-15/

FWIW, I use my TA11 (3.5x35) ACOG for a variety of purposes, whether it's a static 300 yard range, shooting steel, used one in Iraq (TA31) or even deer hunting. Like I said, you're not going to be putting one bullet after another through the same hole at 300 yards with it but you will be able to engage man-sized targets with confidence at that range.

[Ride4frnt]

I laughed at the minute of man comment. I'm not precision shooter, minute of bambi works for me.

[alamo5000]

Well, think about the direction the RIFLE is going. Is it a benchrest/precision gun, or is it more of a fighting carbine that you'll run through some carbine employment type of courses?

Since your engagement range is sub-300 yarsds, I'd say you're probably more in the latter category. This article may help some:
https://demigodllc.com/articles/figh...for-the-ar-15/

Definitely not a bench gun. No question. In my other threads I kind of talked about my 'vision' for the rifle. I will kind of recap here.

I feel like plain irons are fine and all but they do have limits for the 223/556 round. I want to be able to effectively have a rifle where I can engage and hit targets within my 2-300 yard range. I want to be able to use the round to more of the full extent of the round than just plain old irons.

I hear the term 'battle rifle' and yes, that's kind if it, depending on what you mean by that.

If a herd of wild zombies attack, if I engage them within those ranges (0-300) I am good with that. Hitting an apple at 200 yards was just an example I pulled out of my backside.

If I can hit effectively man size targets (I hate using that kind of terminology because that is seriously NOT my thing at all) but that would be a reference point. Of course if I am in the back yard blowing up tannerite cannisters then that's pretty fun too. Get back 100 yards and kablam.

If I don't stack holes on holes that's ok... but I am coming from an AK platform and am moving into (either an addition or replacement I don't know) for a 'battle rifle' I want to exploit the round better and take advantage of greater accuracy as a weapons system.

I can CLEARLY state that with an AR I am not expecting bench rest accuracy. Not at all. I have considered building a bench gun too, but the AR comes first. "Accuracy" is a loaded word... but I am not expecting to drive nails, but I am expecting much greater ability than I have with an AK, and at farther distances. Again the 'man size target' at 200 yards (GRRR I hate that terminology) or even 300 is just fine.

My gun is going to be used for sport. I might give my hand at a simple 3 gun course. Possible. I have been invited about 6 times to be on a team (for fun) but I haven't done it yet.

Plinking, shooting steel, being able to hit my targets are the goals here. I am not expecting super human accurate 5 shots, one hole precision. That said, I am gearing it up to where I can have pretty dog gone decent (I hope) groups at 100 yards where I will zero my rifle.

[alamo5000]

I laughed at the minute of man comment. I'm not precision shooter, minute of bambi works for me.

HEHEE!

Now that's funny I don't care who ya are! :)

I don't want to be phobic about the whole 'man size' target thing... I get it... its a battle rifle and that's what I am building. I am not being PC here, just saying...I think too many people (non gun people) might get the wrong idea...

Minute of bambi.... LOL

[Ride4frnt]

Definitely not a bench gun. No question. In my other threads I kind of talked about my 'vision' for the rifle. I will kind of recap here.

I feel like plain irons are fine and all but they do have limits for the 223/556 round. I want to be able to effectively have a rifle where I can engage and hit targets within my 2-300 yard range. I want to be able to use the round to more of the full extent of the round than just plain old irons.

I hear the term 'battle rifle' and yes, that's kind if it, depending on what you mean by that.

If a herd of wild zombies attack, if I engage them within those ranges (0-300) I am good with that. Hitting an apple at 200 yards was just an example I pulled out of my backside.

If I can hit effectively man size targets (I hate using that kind of terminology because that is seriously NOT my thing at all) but that would be a reference point. Of course if I am in the back yard blowing up tannerite cannisters then that's pretty fun too. Get back 100 yards and kablam.

If I don't stack holes on holes that's ok... but I am coming from an AK platform and am moving into (either an addition or replacement I don't know) for a 'battle rifle' I want to exploit the round better and take advantage of greater accuracy as a weapons system.

I can CLEARLY state that with an AR I am not expecting bench rest accuracy. Not at all. I have considered building a bench gun too, but the AR comes first. "Accuracy" is a loaded word... but I am not expecting to drive nails, but I am expecting much greater ability than I have with an AK, and at farther distances. Again the 'man size target' at 200 yards (GRRR I hate that terminology) or even 300 is just fine.

My gun is going to be used for sport. I might give my hand at a simple 3 gun course. Possible. I have been invited about 6 times to be on a team (for fun) but I haven't done it yet.

Plinking, shooting steel, being able to hit my targets are the goals here. I am not expecting super human accurate 5 shots, one hole precision. That said, I am gearing it up to where I can have pretty dog gone decent (I hope) groups at 100 yards where I will zero my rifle.

After reading that, I'm convinced you need a 1-4 or 1-6 optic. It should cover the gamut.

[Former11B]

After reading that, I'm convinced you need a 1-4 or 1-6 optic. It should cover the gamut.

My thoughts as well.

Something like this:
Vortex Viper PST 1-4x capped turrrets
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...capped-turrets

Or even the PA ACSS 1-6x optic...Im not sure how everyone else feels about it since it's not a "big name" piece, but it looks pretty solid.

[CarbonScoring]

When I built my latest rifle I wanted something similar to what you're looking for; 0-300 yards, mostly under 100 yards, but more precise than just a red dot or irons. Since I wanted to be able to use it like a red dot at short distances, I went with a Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x24. It will still allow me to be more precise over 100 yards, but still gives me the ability to acquire targets quickly up close. The Trijicon may be a bit pricey, but I would think the Primary Arms 1-6 or the Vortex 1-4 would be very good choices for you.

The best thing you can do would be to go to a store and look through a few scopes to see what magnification range works well with your eye sight.