Rail Systems? Your opinion?

[UWone77]

According to Bill Geissele, he said that Keymod is not as structurally as sound as MLOK. Now, I don't know enough about material sciences to prove/disprove this (... haven't gotten that far in engineering classes yet) ... but Bill's a mechanical engineer, so I'll say his word is good.

Is Keymod that popular of a mounting option? Doesn't really seem like; at least not to me.

After messing around with Slipper's (Arisaka Defense) Mounts, M-Lok in my opinion is a superior mounting system.

[Ride4frnt]

According to Bill Geissele, he said that Keymod is not as structurally as sound as MLOK. Now, I don't know enough about material sciences to prove/disprove this (... haven't gotten that far in engineering classes yet) ... but Bill's a mechanical engineer, so I'll say his word is good.

Is Keymod that popular of a mounting option? Doesn't really seem like; at least not to me.

By looking at it and not using it, mlok looks superior for sure. I would think keymod accessories would fall off much easier.

[alamo5000]

According to Bill Geissele, he said that Keymod is not as structurally as sound as MLOK. Now, I don't know enough about material sciences to prove/disprove this (... haven't gotten that far in engineering classes yet) ... but Bill's a mechanical engineer, so I'll say his word is good.

Is Keymod that popular of a mounting option? Doesn't really seem like; at least not to me.

My M-Lok seems more solid merely because it has more mass to it or it feels like it does. I think part of the reason Keymod is popular is because Noveske uses it a lot, and we all know that bad ass pictures on the internet sell stuff :)

I doubt people are going to crush their rails but I personally think the M-Lok I have feels more solid. Then again I think a big part of that is SLR Rifleworks makes one HELL of a good rail. I handled a Geisele rail and I am glad I opted for the SLR between the two.

[Slippers]

My company is small and hasn't been in business very long, but I can assure you, we have been selling far more keymod accessories than m-lok. 10:1 ratio, easily. Part of the reason is that there are not nearly as many m-lok handguards out there yet. Another reason is that some of the bigger and more well-known firearms companies like BCM (who the designer of keymod now works for), Daniel Defense, and Knights Armament all have keymod handguards. And, of course, keymod has had a 2 year head start.

From an accessory manufacturing standpoint, keymod is cheaper. Why? Keymod nuts cost less than m-lok nuts. Regardless of volume.

The only reason that everyone says m-lok is cheaper to manufacture is due to keymod requiring a special chamfer on the back side of each slot. It's a small tool, since it has to fit through the slot, which means it's easier to break and can't go very fast. The thing is, you see every aluminum m-lok handguard with a chamfer around each slot on the outside, so it's not like cutting a keymod handguard adds all that much extra machine time. Some? Yes. But not that much.

[alamo5000]

By looking at it and not using it, mlok looks superior for sure. I would think keymod accessories would fall off much easier.

I've never used Keymod but I think the notion of things falling off isn't really a concern for the most part. That is unless you just don't put it on right or tighten the thing down enough.

[alamo5000]

My company is small and hasn't been in business very long, but I can assure you, we have been selling far more keymod accessories than m-lok. 10:1 ratio, easily. Part of the reason is that there are not nearly as many m-lok handguards out there yet. Another reason is that some of the bigger and more well-known firearms companies like BCM (who the designer of keymod now works for), Daniel Defense, and Knights Armament all have keymod handguards. And, of course, keymod has had a 2 year head start.

From an accessory manufacturing standpoint, keymod is cheaper. Why? Keymod nuts cost less than m-lok nuts. Regardless of volume.

The only reason that everyone says m-lok is cheaper to manufacture is due to keymod requiring a special chamfer on the back side of each slot. It's a small tool, since it has to fit through the slot, which means it's easier to break and can't go very fast. The thing is, you see every aluminum m-lok handguard with a chamfer around each slot on the outside, so it's not like cutting a keymod handguard adds all that much extra machine time. Some? Yes. But not that much.

Wow, that is one of the best, most informative posts I've seen on the subject.

I think the fact that many people use off the shelf guns... and those manufacturers were early adopters of keymod means a whole lot. 2 years head start is a big deal, but to me thats just a snap shot in time. I think many of the bigger gun manufacturers might start putting m-lok options up on their rails and letting people have a choice. Seems like keymod was the only game in town for a while there.

If there is one thing I know gun companies like to sell guns. If you want one in metallic purple they are happy to oblige. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't start giving more m-lok rail options for their off the shelf guns... but who knows.

Once again your post is very informative.

[Slippers]

Oh, I'd also like to say that m-lok almost always requires a visual of the nuts to make sure they turned 90 degrees and are giving the most surface area contact on the inside of the handguard. The only thing that makes the nut turn is the friction from the screw spinning through it. If you apply any side pressure on the accessory the nut can bind up just enough to not spin, so you'll tighten it right back through the m-lok slot.

And, if you loosen the nut too far, it'll spin freely on the inside of the handguard and refuse to tighten back up. You basically have to lift the accessory off the handguard just a bit so the nut dips into the m-lok slot and is held in place while you thread it in a turn or so.

Definitely requires a little trial and error. I'm pretty technically inclined, and it doesn't work perfectly for me every time.

[alamo5000]

After messing around with Slipper's (Arisaka Defense) Mounts, M-Lok in my opinion is a superior mounting system.

Tell us why you think that way if you don't mind? Just curious since you are obviously pretty experienced and know gear pretty well.

[alamo5000]

Oh, I'd also like to say that m-lok almost always requires a visual of the nuts to make sure they turned 90 degrees and are giving the most surface area contact on the inside of the handguard. The only thing that makes the nut turn is the friction from the screw spinning through it. If you apply any side pressure on the accessory the nut can bind up just enough to not spin, so you'll tighten it right back through the m-lok slot.

And, if you loosen the nut too far, it'll spin freely on the inside of the handguard and refuse to tighten back up. You basically have to lift the accessory off the handguard just a bit so the nut dips into the m-lok slot and is held in place while you thread it in a turn or so.

Definitely requires a little trial and error. I'm pretty technically inclined, and it doesn't work perfectly for me every time.

I haven't done any side by side comparisons here but on the few M-Lok things that I do have once you put them on right they are there and aren't moving. Yes you have to make sure they are on there right, but to me that's basic of just about anything.

Also I kind of like the look of the M-Lok rail myself. I think it looks a bit nicer than the keymod, but that's just me.

[alamo5000]

From an accessory manufacturing standpoint, keymod is cheaper. Why? Keymod nuts cost less than m-lok nuts. Regardless of volume.

If you wouldn't mind, like what are we talking here? 10% cheaper? 20%?

Just your best guess...and why they are cheaper (or more expensive)

[alamo5000]

I also wonder who else (other than magpul) actually makes M-Lok accessories...I am in the market...

So far I've only stumbled across a couple at best... apparently there are over 30 companies making m-lok stuff but I have no idea who.

EDIT: Look what I found....

http://soldiersystems.net/2014/04/26...-m-lok-system/

[alamo5000]

More info:

http://www.thenewrifleman.com/keymod...-the-standard/

[UWone77]

I also wonder who else (other than magpul) actually makes M-Lok accessories...I am in the market...

So far I've only stumbled across a couple at best... apparently there are over 30 companies making m-lok stuff but I have no idea who.

EDIT: Look what I found....

http://soldiersystems.net/2014/04/26...-m-lok-system/

Much like KeyMod it's going to take some time to get traction. In fact look at KeyMod, it basically took 2 years and we're just starting to see accessories.

[alamo5000]

"Q:Why the M-LOK system and not another existing open source system such as KeyMod?
A:In our experience, KeyMod is not a suitable mounting system for polymer products, because a conical nut is used to secure the accessory in place. On plastic materials, the conical mating surfaces of KeyMod will either promote cracking or loosening due to creep and deformation of the material. In addition, KeyMod’s undercut also requires the use of specialized cutters for CNC operations or complex injection mold designs. As a result of the KeyMod design, the QC process becomes significant with high volume manufacturing, resulting in increased time and cost when compared to manufacturing the M-LOK system."

Page 8

http://magpul.commercev3.com/downloa...lease_FAQs.pdf



"Q:How secure is the M-LOK T-Nut?
A:The engagement surface area and the strength of all hardware has been tested in live fire, shock, drop, vibration under heat cycle, and direct force pull out in excess of 300 lbs with no loosening of the system."

Page 9

[CarbonScoring]

I was not a fan of modular handguards early on because they felt too skinny to me. I also liked the way 1913 rail would dig into my hand, giving me a real solid grip.

The thing is, how often are the rails used on the back 1/2 to 2/3 of the handguard? I put a vertical grip on the bottom (maybe a bipod as far forward on the bottom) and a light as far forward on the side as I can get. I have no need for any more rail (assuming there is a QD on the back of the rail). Therefore, my preference, in most cases, is for something like a Geissele Mk4 which has permanent rails up front and the rest is smooth.

My preference now is for M-lok smilply because I like the look of it better. Since most of the handguard will be exposed, I'd rather see the nice slots of M-lok that the industrial racking look of keymod. Both systems work fine though. Each seems to lock up fine and I don't feel any movement once secured.

Oh, I'd also like to say that m-lok almost always requires a visual of the nuts to make sure they turned 90 degrees and are giving the most surface area contact on the inside of the handguard.

This would be my one criticism of M-lok. Keymod just fits in and screws down; no messing about. M-lok, while I've never had any issues, does need to have the nuts set up properly to get the right friction to engage.