More Barrel Questions

[UWone77]

On a side note, how does one get selected or recruited to participate in said 'torture testing' ?

Sounds like that COULD be a lot of fun...

I basically built a gun, and then passed it around my local shooting community trying to break it. I'd love to run one for the members here.

If they want to donate their time and ammo.

[alamo5000]

Here's a good read for you:

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...-Forged-Barrel

Still reading... one thing that I saw come up... already... not barrel related... this is the second time I have heard I should consider staking my castle nut.

What is a proper procedure for doing such? Is it 'that important? Based on the photos, yes. Especially since my sling is attached to that plate.

Would blue loctite be a viable alternative to staking or should I stake mine instead?

[alamo5000]

Here's a good read for you:

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...-Forged-Barrel

VERY NICE REVIEW!!!

I would never do that to my own gun... but it's nice to know that some people do for the peace of mind of others....

[alamo5000]

Trust me your wallet will just constantly bleed.

Damnit man! Why did you have to do this to me.

Crap.

http://nightforceoptics.com/compacts...ct-riflescope/

$1500 more bucks.

And its a 30mm tube...so it will fit my mounts and everything....

[Slippers]

You asked what I built:



And yeah, that's a NF 2.5-10x32. :)

[alamo5000]

You asked what I built:



And yeah, that's a NF 2.5-10x32. :)

So very nice! How long is that barrel?

Earlier in the thread we were talking about precision shooting and all that and NF got mentioned so I took a peek at their website.... drool.

[Slippers]

It's a Noveske SPR barrel, so 18" with intermediate gas. You can also get it in rifle length gas through MSTN.

I'm currently fighting with the optic mount height and cheek weld problems, but the barrel shoots wonderfully when I do my part.

[DutyUse]

The benefit of cold hammer forged is consistency in your chamber and bore. Due to the chrome lining it shouldn't make a difference whether or not the barrel is CHF or not for longevity, since the bullet would contact the chrome instead of the material underneath. Some are saying that meloniting a barrel is the way to go. The meloniting supposedly is stronger and has less growth, for minimal effects on accuracy. I personally have no experience with melonited barrels but have a BCM BFH and have been very pleased with it. Remember though that a average barrel with good ammo will most likely out perform a high end barrel with poor ammo.

This has been my experience aswell. In my personal shooting I've had such impressive accuracy out of my CHF barrels that I doubt I could personally gain anything from going stainless. Also the durability of these FN produced barrels are outstanding from what I've seen.

[alamo5000]

Follow up report:

I just got off the phone with Rainier Arms. I told them that I was considering getting the barrel nitrocarberized (sp?) but that I wanted to check with them first because their website says they do some kind of hardening process already. I didn't want to double do it if I didn't need to.

He told me that they tried to do Nitrocarberizing those specific barrels but that in tests it made the barrel TOO hard which led to at least a 15% or more failure rate and a shorter overall barrel life vs other alternative methods. He also said that it made other manufacturing processes much more difficult when it was done on those Select Medcon barrels.

He basically said over hardening caused a lot of problems. Far too many than they found acceptable. His number not mine was "15%" meaning failure rate but I also assume this applies to an actual shorter barrel life as well.

What he also told me is they developed a proprietary system that is 'similar' to nitrocarberizing but without all those issues.

He flat out told me that I was going to get between 12-15,000 rounds through this barrel before I start to see it opening up. He said their hardening process they use found that 'sweet spot' for performance and life. The guy I talked to was a 3 gunner who actually uses that specific barrel on his personal gun so he was able to tell me a lot of details.

He didn't tell me a Rockwell Hardness number, but that is irrelevant knowing all the other information. On another website that I saw though it says Nitrocarberizing creates a surface hardness of at least 59... so based on that number if that is 'too hard' for this specific type of metal, one can only surmise the Rockwell hardness range after Rainier's hardening process... somewhere between 40 to 50 would be about in the ball park I am guessing. Again though, irrelevant information in the grand scheme of things.

But what he was saying makes perfect sense. If the barrel is TOO stiff and TOO hard it starts to develop cracks and such with the whiplash of each repeated shot (over time)...not to mention further complications in manufacturing processes.

This was straight from the horses mouth... and it does make sense... He flat out told me that 'even if you are a hard user you will easily get 10,000 or more, probably 12,000 rounds through it, but if you aren't a hard user probably 15,000 or more'...

Interesting information. Very interesting. Soft barrels are easy to wear out, but hard barrels have downsides too... but if I can get 12-15,000 rounds down range with the accuracy of a stainless steel barrel.... it sounds like they got the formula for the soup on barrels just about right....

But a lot of myths busted about 'stainless steel'...

[alamo5000]

It really sounds like to me that Rainier Arms has their crap together. Just saying.

But I think with all these hardening processes and such and using different kinds of metals, and this or that it's a good thing to not talk about barrels in such a black and white way. It really does open the game up a lot. Especially when you consider what KIND of metal and all sorts of other factors as well as their processes for manufacturing and so on and so forth....

Just based on my whole little experiment here and asking the right people and willingness to learn stuff... there is a whole lot more to it than blanket statements about one kind of barrel or another.

[UWone77]

It really sounds like to me that Rainier Arms has their crap together. Just saying.

But I think with all these hardening processes and such and using different kinds of metals, and this or that it's a good thing to not talk about barrels in such a black and white way. It really does open the game up a lot. Especially when you consider what KIND of metal and all sorts of other factors as well as their processes for manufacturing and so on and so forth....

Just based on my whole little experiment here and asking the right people and willingness to learn stuff... there is a whole lot more to it than blanket statements about one kind of barrel or another.

You know these are just Black Hole Weaponry barrels, made to their specs right?

The Select Line is good, but I think what every basic/entry level stainless barrel should be.

[Former11B]

Damnit man! Why did you have to do this to me.

Crap.

http://nightforceoptics.com/compacts...ct-riflescope/

$1500 more bucks.

And its a 30mm tube...so it will fit my mounts and everything....

I'd really like one of those scopes but it's not gonna be right away. I've always liked the 2.5-10x...nice combo of size, weight and magnification

[alamo5000]

You know these are just Black Hole Weaponry barrels, made to their specs right?

The Select Line is good, but I think what every basic/entry level stainless barrel should be.

Like I said, I think they have their crap together. After that conversation today it's apparent that they really do put a lot of brain power into what they do. It is also abundantly clear that a lot of people on the internet are full of sh*t.

Are you saying the Select Line is a basic entry level barrel? If so bring em on!!! LOL

Or do you think they should be a 'standard' to go by??? (not quite getting your meaning)...

If these are middle of the road barrels, I wonder what makes a match grade barrel a match grade barrel? What else do they do to them to go 'up from here'?

[alamo5000]

I'd really like one of those scopes but it's not gonna be right away. I've always liked the 2.5-10x...nice combo of size, weight and magnification

I am just now testing my optic. It was cheap ($200 bucks)... I invested a lot of time and effort into understanding what I was getting as to the AR platform itself... now I need to devote at least that much time and effort into understanding optics and how they work and why one does one thing and the other does another... it's a whole different banana. The choice of optic can change the entire 'purpose and intended function' of the gun....

Once I learn more and build my wallet back up I will try to make some informed choices on optics....

[UWone77]

Like I said, I think they have their crap together. After that conversation today it's apparent that they really do put a lot of brain power into what they do. It is also abundantly clear that a lot of people on the internet are full of sh*t.

Are you saying the Select Line is a basic entry level barrel? If so bring em on!!! LOL

Or do you think they should be a 'standard' to go by??? (not quite getting your meaning)...

If these are middle of the road barrels, I wonder what makes a match grade barrel and match grade barrel? What else do they do to them to go 'up from here'?

The Select Line is considered their entry level match barrel. Still uses a 5.56 chamber vs the .223 Wylde. I would guess most people can't shoot the barrel to it's potential. In fact, I couldn't shoot sub-MOA with it at 100, so it's a much better barrel than I am a shooter.

Here's my review of it from about 4 years ago:

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...-5.56MM-Barrel