Suppressor Knowledge

[alamo5000]

I am strongly considering filing all the proper forms for a trust and starting to save for a suppressor. Given I have a very long want list so I have to decide where along the line a suppressor really fits in. That being said part of my process that I take before making any kind of 'major' purchase is to first learn about whatever it is I am thinking about buying.

After that I think it over, then I oogle over it, then I make a calculated choice. In other words I don't do much impulse buying. I would just assume learn and save and then buy the 'best' choice for me from the get go.

I know there are numerous types of suppressor designs. Here is just a sample of what I am talking about.

Stacked Baffles



The One Piece



And there are probably many other types. I have even seen some types that go over the barrel and others that have springs in them.

Just like with everything else I dive into the sheer numbers of styles and types are daunting. Initially I am attracted to the one piece type. To me they seem like they are less prone to fail. There are not multiple parts and to me more simple is better. Of course I want effective but I am not sure of the complex designs.

What are the pros and cons to one type or the other? I personally would like one that I can take apart and clean if I want to. But what I am really asking is for a basic discussion on pros and cons of these sometimes funky designs you can find by searching google.

A second question that might be a bit more straight forward is what kind of effects does running a suppressor have on the gun itself? By nature a suppressor captures the muzzle blast and contains it... and by default you wind up with much more back pressure.

If you did nothing else how much would it increase pressure on say a 5.56? (but feel free to enlighten me about others if you want). Would running a suppressor cause a more violent slam of the Bolt on an AR? I also assume it does make your gun run dirty because simply put you are trapping a lot of those gases. Is an adjustable gas block really a 'must' or is that more of a nicety? Is any consideration given to the buffer spring?

I've shot with a suppressor on a number of times, but not a lot. I recall once I shot a suppressed pistol and the whole time I was getting peppered in the face. I guess it was just blow back.

Basically what are the things to look for if I were to purchase something?

As a side note to this I am no where near buying or owning a suppressor (for now) but within the next 6 months or so I realistically could get set up and have the money to file the papers and all that stuff. It could be sooner than that but I am being general. Also please note I am not really talking or asking about the pros and cons of buying direct or setting up a trust or any of the legal part... I am talking technical here for right now. Later on once I learn more about what I am in for technically speaking then we can get more into the nuts and bolts of the legalese.

But for now which kind of suppressor works better? Which style do you like better and why? Are stacked baffles easier to get baffle strikes vs say the one piece design?

Does barrel length effect anything significant in relation the performance of the suppressor?

Of course the mount does matter too... Some fit over a muzzle device, others slide a few inches over the barrel, others screw right on the barrel. Some have a quick detach function and others do not. I understand to some degree but over time I will have to develop a preference for one or the other.

Anyway you guys get the picture here... so please share some knowledge and/or experience so that I can (eventually) make a wise choice.

[Thompson]

I don't know much about suppressors either, but from the bits and pieces of digging I've done - I'm slightly more inclined to stacked baffles (at the moment) mainly because of the ease of cleaning (compared to a single piece suppressor).

[Ordnance]

You may not need to clean it as much as you think. Also, yes baffles are important but don't get focused on the baffles themselves as much as the quality and overall design along with any feature you may want. The most important question... What do you plan to use it on primarily?

[Thompson]

You may not need to clean it as much as you think.

Does the type of round dictate how dirty it gets? Ie: .22LR lead nose?

[alamo5000]

You may not need to clean it as much as you think. Also, yes baffles are important but don't get focused on the baffles themselves as much as the quality and overall design along with any feature you may want. The most important question... What do you plan to use it on primarily?

For right now I am focusing on having one for my AR15.

What constitutes a good build and overall design? Cleaning and maintenance is just one aspect of that...

[tact]

Do you clean your muffler? Cans don't require that much cleaning unless you are choosing to fire lead through it. They perform better dirty anyway.

[alamo5000]

Do you clean your muffler? Cans don't require that much cleaning unless you are choosing to fire lead through it. They perform better dirty anyway.

If I owned one I might clean it up from time to time. LOL :) at least that's what I was thinking. At least to have the option.

[MoxyDave]

.22lr cans get dirty. Other calibers typically vaporize the junk so it doesn't build up. I prefer a monocore design for .22lr, and I just throw the whole thing in "the dip" for a couple hours to clean it every 1000 rounds or so.

[UWone77]

Shooting jacketed .22 in my experience helps as well. To my ear, monocore and stacked baffles in .22 cans sound about the same.

[alamo5000]

Shooting jacketed .22 in my experience helps as well. To my ear, monocore and stacked baffles in .22 cans sound about the same.

Assume we are talking about something bigger...say a .308 for discussion purposes ... Does one work better than the other?

[Former11B]

Alamo, Take a breather before you confuse yourself. You need to figure out WHAT you want to suppress before you figure out which baffle stack you like the best; indivdual K baffle stacks vs monocores (not "The one piece" lol) I'm going to take a second and dissect your first post. I'll edit my answers back in here when I'm done.

EDIT:

Stacked Baffles

The One Piece

And there are probably many other types. I have even seen some types that go over the barrel and others that have springs in them.

The suppressors with springs are pistol cans. Suppressors used on moving barrels, like a Glock for example, need a booster piston (the spring) to soak up the recoil and movement of the barrel in order for the pistol to cycle properly. If you use a booster piston on a fixed barrel, the spring and suppressor will jackhammer the threads...no good. But running a can with no booster on a moving barrel will likely cause the gun to have serious cycling issues. These boosters have specific notches that keep them in place, so what is moving is only what needs to move, to prevent failures.

The "over the barrel" cans are called Reflex Suppressors. They are typically seen in precision semiauto rifles, and examples are OPS INC/Allen Engineering and the Griffin Armament SPR. They are extremely quiet suppressors, as they are typically longer than most, yet reduce Overall Length very little due to coming back over the barrel due to the mount design.

Just like with everything else I dive into the sheer numbers of styles and types are daunting. Initially I am attracted to the one piece type. To me they seem like they are less prone to fail. There are not multiple parts and to me more simple is better. Of course I want effective but I am not sure of the complex designs.

What are the pros and cons to one type or the other? I personally would like one that I can take apart and clean if I want to. But what I am really asking is for a basic discussion on pros and cons of these sometimes funky designs you can find by searching google.

Typically you only see monocores in .22lr suppressors, but not all .22 suppressors use them. The monocore design is very effective, but does have more First Round Pop than a Baffle Stack, just due to the design. FRP is the phenomenon caused by the oxygen in the suppressor when the first shot goes off, making it slightly louder than the subsequent shots due to the CO in the can. All modern .22 cans are user serviceable, whether monocore or baffle stack, due to the build up of lead over time. I have found even using copper jacketed American Eagle Suppressor ammo that lead still builds up due to the thin plating...not as quickly but ALL .22 AMMO IS DIRTY.

A lot of manufacturers are making their 9mm/.45 pistol cans user serviceable now due to people getting the most bang for their buck and wanting to use them on a variety of guns like .22lr, 300 BLK Subsonic, etc so they can use LEAD bullets and have the ability to clean the cans out.

If you are shooting nothing but jacketed centerfire rifle through a suppressor, like a 5.56 or 7.62, you DO NOT NEED a serviceable suppressor, and most rifle cans are not serviceable, due to the amount of pressures they see, they NEED to be fully welded and a solid unit. Huntertown Arms makes a serviceable 5.56 can and I've seen several pictures of them failing at the threads. No thanks.

A second question that might be a bit more straight forward is what kind of effects does running a suppressor have on the gun itself? By nature a suppressor captures the muzzle blast and contains it... and by default you wind up with much more back pressure.

If you did nothing else how much would it increase pressure on say a 5.56? (but feel free to enlighten me about others if you want). Would running a suppressor cause a more violent slam of the Bolt on an AR? I also assume it does make your gun run dirty because simply put you are trapping a lot of those gases. Is an adjustable gas block really a 'must' or is that more of a nicety? Is any consideration given to the buffer spring?

Lets take an M4/AR15 for example. You'll see increased temperatures, increased cyclic rate, increased fouling, and get blowback (particulate matter blowing back in your face...really noticeable in pistols) etc from all the trapped and returned hot, dirty gases being recycled into the gun. This can be mitigated using something like an adjustable gas block (Syac, MicroMOA) or a gas adjustable upper receiver (Innovative Arms WAR). I personally use a WAR on one of my ARs and it is simply amazing. I would like 2 more to run on my other guns. I understand this isn't an option for guys who have, say, a matched Noveske Upper/Lower, but WAR uppers are great. I have found it really softens/dampens the recoil, I get no blowback, and it reduces the cyclic rate of the bolt. I haven't found the need to swap out my buffer for a heavier one, and I imagine if people who DO swap out buffers were to get adjustable gas systems first, they may not need to.

Also, with any suppressed gun, rifle or pistol, QUALITY AMMO is a key. I can tell the difference in crappy Tulammo through my G19 compared to my cleaner handloads in how it functions and the amount of blowback in my face. If you don't make a habit of eyepro before, a suppressed handgun will make you a user.

Basically what are the things to look for if I were to purchase something?

What do you want out of the suppressor? Do you want to suppress a .22? A 9mm? A half dozen 5.56 guns? All these questions make a difference. If you want to run it on a single AR and never move it versus having six ARs and one suppressor, that will determine if you would benefit from a thread on or taper mount can versus a quick attach suppressor.

But for now which kind of suppressor works better? Which style do you like better and why? Are stacked baffles easier to get baffle strikes vs say the one piece design?

Typically with sealed centerfire rifle cans, you'll have baffles, either single piece or a solid billet core, pushed into and welded inside an exterior tube. Most 9mm/.45 cans have stackable K-Baffles, some are serviceable, some are not. The serviceable baffle stacks have very detailed instructions on how they are supposed to be aligned and reassembled for gas flow, fit, and function. I know my Innovative Arms 9mm can is sealed, but IA is now making serviceable pistol cans, so I am going to take my 9mm suppressor back to Innovative Arms (I live close by) and they will upgrade the core for me (WOO HOO!). I got it a few years ago and serviceable pistol cans (not .22lr) were just sort of becoming a "thing". My .22 can is a monocore and I like it because I don't have to worry about getting 6-8 baffles unstuck from the inside of the can if I shoot a couple thousand dirty .22 rounds through it:
Innovative Arms .22lr

Does barrel length effect anything significant in relation the performance of the suppressor?

Using an AR15 as an example: The shorter the barrel, the harder it will be for the suppressor to be effective on muffling the muzzle blast. A 7.5"-10" AR will be MUCH quieter with a can, but will not sound as good as a 16"-20" AR. One more point to make about barrel length: If you are running a short barrel, I think only one or two cans out there are warrantied on a 7.5" barrel for 5.56. Even 10.5" barrels are very destructive to the inside of a can, which is why people with SBRs typically use BRAKE mounts versus flash hiders, because the brake acts as a sacrificial baffle, and the flame cutting and erosion from unburnt powder will destroy the replaceable muzzle brake before it will eat the inside of the can.

Look at the 21st post in here by WI57. He does a great job of taking pictures of the lifetime of the can and showing what destructive force a short barrel has:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/38...orn_cans_.html

Of course the mount does matter too... Some fit over a muzzle device, others slide a few inches over the barrel, others screw right on the barrel. Some have a quick detach function and others do not. I understand to some degree but over time I will have to develop a preference for one or the other.

Like I said before, what you want to suppress and what you figure you might buy in the next year or two should play a part in your suppressor choice. If you are building a small, lightweight rifle, a 7.62 suppressor will not be at home on it, but a lighter 5.56 suppressor will. A thread on suppressor will not be the ideal choice if you want to swap it around on 6 different rifles because removing the can from one will leave bare threads on another unless you want to get a linear compensator that doesn't need timing or a crush washer to use when the suppressor is gone. However, if you only have one 5.56 rifle that fits a precision role, a thread on or reflex type of suppressor may be right up your alley. Thread on cans are thought to be more precise than QD cans because some QD mounts don't lock up 100% tight and snug, but the newer models like a SpecWar with their taper mount design are changing those opinions.

Anyway you guys get the picture here... so please share some knowledge and/or experience so that I can (eventually) make a wise choice.

Sometimes these long posts make it really hard to answer all your questions. I know you're trying to learn and I'm not at all telling you to stop, but I'll send you the bill for my optometry vist!!!!


I'll break it down further to help us help you:

What do you want to suppress?

If it's a rifle, what caliber, and do you want the ability to move it quickly from one host to another, or will it primarily stay on one rifle? Is size and weight a concern, or do you want to maximize suppression?

If it's a pistol, what caliber and what host(s)?

Whenever I recommend a suppressor to anyone, I generally leave .22lr cans as a separate category. I feel like no matter what can someone gets, they should ALSO get a .22 suppressor.

[alamo5000]

Alamo, Take a breather before you confuse yourself. You need to figure out WHAT you want to suppress before you figure out which baffle stack you like the best; indivdual K baffle stacks vs monocores (not "The one piece" lol) I'm going to take a second and dissect your first post. I'll edit my answers back in here when I'm done.

I'm a blank slate. Not showing preference for one or the other. Asking so I can learn.

[UWone77]

I'm a blank slate. Not showing preference for one or the other. Asking so I can learn.

I think the question is, what type of gun are you suppressing and/or what caliber do you plan to suppress. You pictured a .22 suppressor. Is a .22lr can what you're looking to get first?

[Former11B]

I think the question is, what type of gun are you suppressing and/or what caliber do you plan to suppress. You pictured a .22 suppressor. Is a .22lr can what you're looking to get first?

Exactly.

I edited my first post with a more detailed response to hopefully clear up my earlier remark.

[alamo5000]

If I posted a pic of a 22LR suppressor it shows how much I know about suppressors. Which is zip Nada. Nothing.

Initially if I suppress anything it will be an AR 15. 5.56