What constitutes a "build"

[Ordnance]

Here's an example of what I consider "not a build".

Recently I came (long story) across a "one time only" exceptional deal on a DPMS .308 Oracle. It was fork over the cash now, or take a pass. Since I could actually have the evidence that it didn't have even a full box of ammo shot through it, and I'd had the little voice in my head telling me I needed an AR-10 for quite a while, I took the bait and bought it.

After playing with it for a while, I found out I didn't like much about it. The crappy 2 piece cheap plastic hand guard, the odd railed block 1/2 inch or so below the rail on the rifle, the crappy stock, the trigger, nothing.

So, the WWW rescued me. Ordered a match grade NiB BCG, a CMC 3.5lb. "flat" trigger, a new gas block, a MI 15" KMR free float hand guard, a Bravo Company MOD 3 .308 version CH, a CRT Stock, an ERGO AR 10 grip from Larue Tactical, a Lantac Dragon muzzle brake, and some MBUS sights. Basically I just swapped out parts. The only real "work" I did, was that the MI gas block that DPMS promised would be a perfect replacement, didn't, and I had to mill in the dimples to make it work.

I really don't consider that a build, just me swapping out some parts. A "modification" if you will. I wasn't quite sure, but I thought I heard a voice from far away, from a big white house in D.C. yell out, "YOU DIDN"T BUILD THAT"!!!..hmmm now I'm confused as to what to call it, except for my AR-10.

Semantics. You could say you rebuilt it and customized it around your own needs. Honestly this all comes down to semantics and some will want to argue how one thing qualifies but another doesn't yet in the end who really cares except the people that want to validate an opinion for their own sake? Do you feel you built it and do you like it? Yes? Great now shut-up and go shoot it lol... (Not talking about you either FT)

[FortTom]

So you wouldn't consider modifying a car a build then as some one that builds hotrods / Profomance cars I take offense to that. Modifying something is as much of a build as building it from a bare frame. A big part of a a build is the knowledge of knowing what parts to use and what works what doesn't and how to put it together.

As far as folks taking offense, I think we covered that, and you're late for the party guy. I have a custom '70 Harley that I pulled out of an old garage, mostly in pieces and boxes, so I'm very familiar with what it takes to basically go frame up. I can call it anything I want, it turns heads etc. wins trophies, blah..blah..but the heavy lifting, extensive engine work, and installation of a polished aluminum 6 speed tranny, installing a new front to rear wiring harness, and finally paint, was done by professionals. So, I don't go around saying "I built that". I spread the love where it belongs, I mainly just bolted shit together.

Sorry about the "butt hurt" but I think the rest of us have covered that. It's all subjective. And unless I personally attack you or yours, your "offense" is not my concern.

[Ordnance]

As far as folks taking offense, I think we covered that, and you're late for the party guy.

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic... lol...

[Ordnance]

FT... I'm offended that your offended about being offended... lol

[FortTom]

Semantics. You could say you rebuilt it and customized it around your own needs. Honestly this all comes down to semantics and some will want to argue how one thing qualifies but another doesn't yet in the end who really cares except the people that want to validate an opinion for their own sake? Do you feel you built it and do you like it? Yes? Great now shut-up and go shoot it lol... (Not talking about you either FT)

Yes, this. About as close as quantifying a "build" vs. I worked on it, I guess it all boils down to semantics.

[FortTom]

FT... I'm offended that your offended about being offended... lol

As long as you're not offended about my being offended about being offended, then I throw the red flag for a review of that play....jeeze, I'm really getting confused now... Yep, it's a penalty on the offense.

[SeattleDude]

That is what I would call "Upgraded"

Here's an example of what I consider "not a build".

Recently I came (long story) across a "one time only" exceptional deal on a DPMS .308 Oracle. It was fork over the cash now, or take a pass. Since I could actually have the evidence that it didn't have even a full box of ammo shot through it, and I'd had the little voice in my head telling me I needed an AR-10 for quite a while, I took the bait and bought it.

After playing with it for a while, I found out I didn't like much about it. The crappy 2 piece cheap plastic hand guard, the odd railed block 1/2 inch or so below the rail on the rifle, the crappy stock, the trigger, nothing.

So, the WWW rescued me. Ordered a match grade NiB BCG, a CMC 3.5lb. "flat" trigger, a new gas block, a MI 15" KMR free float hand guard, a Bravo Company MOD 3 .308 version CH, a CRT Stock, an ERGO AR 10 grip from Larue Tactical, a Lantac Dragon muzzle brake, and some MBUS sights. Basically I just swapped out parts. The only real "work" I did, was that the MI gas block that DPMS promised would be a perfect replacement, didn't, and I had to mill in the dimples to make it work.

I really don't consider that a build, just me swapping out some parts. A "modification" if you will. I wasn't quite sure, but I thought I heard a voice from far away, from a big white house in D.C. yell out, "YOU DIDN"T BUILD THAT"!!!..hmmm now I'm confused as to what to call it, except for my AR-10.

[CK 187]

This reminds me of some of the "built vs bought" threads on the motorcycle forum I admin

[FortTom]

This reminds me of some of the "built vs bought" threads on the motorcycle forum I admin

Oh Lord, you had to bring that up? No better way to start a 3,000 thread "cyber fist fight", except to ask "Which oil is the best oil"? Which BTW, usually ends up with 2 or 3 folks being banned.....

[CK 187]

Oh Lord, you had to bring that up? No better way to start a 3,000 thread "cyber fist fight", except to ask "Which oil is the best oil"? Which BTW, usually ends up with 2 or 3 folks being banned.....

I swing a mean ban hammer

[BoilerUp]

build
/bild/

verb
1. construct (something, typically something large) by putting parts or material together over a period of time.

synonyms: construct, erect, put up, assemble

I don't understand what there is to "debate".

The genius of the AR platform is precisely that it takes less than an hour to assemble and requires very minimal tooling. All the work is in the machining / manufacturing of the components / piece-parts. Compare that to an HK roller-lock or even an AK, both of which require jigs, welding, and presses. If building ARs doesn't scratch your itch, I suggest picking up an MP5 parts kit and receiver flat. What I find interesting is that when introduced the AR was an expensive rifle because back then machining required...machinists. CNC technology has brought machining costs way down - to the point that a "cheap" AK is now more expensive to "build" than an AR. I've turned into an AR fan-boy largely because I can swap barrels in my garage. The only thing I can't really do on my own is pin a gas block, but my next build will likely use a clamp on anyway, and my last build only cost me $10 to have the barrel supplier (Ballistic Advantage) pin the gas block before he shipped it to me.

[FortTom]

I don't understand what there is to "debate".

The genius of the AR platform is precisely that it takes less than an hour to assemble and requires very minimal tooling. All the work is in the machining / manufacturing of the components / piece-parts. Compare that to an HK roller-lock or even an AK, both of which require jigs, welding, and presses. If building ARs doesn't scratch your itch, I suggest picking up an MP5 parts kit and receiver flat. What I find interesting is that when introduced the AR was an expensive rifle because back then machining required...machinists. CNC technology has brought machining costs way down - to the point that a "cheap" AK is now more expensive to "build" than an AR. I've turned into an AR fan-boy largely because I can swap barrels in my garage. The only thing I can't really do on my own is pin a gas block, but my next build will likely use a clamp on anyway, and my last build only cost me $10 to have the barrel supplier (Ballistic Advantage) pin the gas block before he shipped it to me.

Thank you for the dictionary definition of the word, build. Four years of college completely down the drain. I should get a refund from UD. Just kidding.. Seriously, I'm not sure how you're comparing the difficulty level of putting different types of firearms together but I'll address your initial question; "I don't understand what there is to debate". What really inspired me, I've been tempted to before, were other conversations I've either read or heard, basically debating what constitutes building an AR or merely assembling parts. That's it. No deep down ulterior motives, or nefarious intentions to cause folks heartache.

FT

[Ordnance]

He said erect... just sayin... lol

[WHSmithIV]

FT - if you buy a prefab house, all the parts are there. When you assemble the house, did you build it? You'll have had to use a hammer and nails for sure. By the definition you're trying to purport, you would only have assembled the house. You wouldn't have built it. The AR is the same as the prefab house in this context. It's just smaller than a house is all and the tools used to put it together are different.

[WHSmithIV]

Perhaps this will clarify the question.

The Dictionary defines build as:

build
verb \ˈbild\

1: to make (something) by putting together parts or materials
2: to develop or form (something) gradually
3: to increase the amount of (something)

transitive verb
1: to form by ordering and uniting materials by gradual means into a composite whole : construct
2: to cause to be constructed
3: to develop according to a systematic plan, by a definite process, or on a particular base

intransitive verb
1: to engage in building
2
a : to progress toward a peak (as of intensity) <build to a climax>
b : to develop in extent <a crowd building>
— build a fire under
: to stimulate to vigorous action
— build into
: to make an integral part of <build quality into the product>
— build on
: to use as a foundation <building on past experience>

Based on the dictionary definition of the verb 'to build' - putting together an AR from the parts constitutes building an AR.