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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Txfilmmaker View Post
    DutyUse. Until about seven years ago, I never owned a firearm. My father-in-law was a gunsmith. I would politely ask him questions about what he did, but was only mildly interested. Then he gave me my first gun. A Colt 1911. I started going to the range and learning how to shoot it. I was hooked quickly! Next thing you know I have my concealed carry permit, a Glock 19, a Ruger 22 rifle and I'm consuming gun information daily. If I'd had the money, I probably would have five or six more firearms by now. After convincing my younger brother to go to the shooting range with me, he went out and bought four firearms in the span of five months. It is addicting. :-) I also work on a television show called Stop The Threat. It showed up at our production company about three years ago. I've gotten to meet Rob Pincus, Kathy Jackson, West Doss, a former FBI agent and Rich Portwood. You would not know who Rich Portwood is unless you watch the show. He is not famous, but he's a "salt of the earth" Midwest police officer who are now become friends with. And now I am making friends here. :)


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    From the outdoor channel?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutyUse View Post
    From the outdoor channel?
    The new episodes are airing on the Pursuit Channel and reruns on The Sportsman Channel. Eventually we will start airing new episodes on Sportsman. If you search Youtube, you can see older episodes without commercial breaks. There is a lot good content. Especially for civilians.


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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutyUse View Post

    However another good choice would be Ballistic Advantage Nitride , especially for the price and quality level.
    How does one measure the quality level?
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post

    My barrel is stainless steel. Some people tell you that 'yes it's great but you won't have the barrel life'... NOT TRUE.

    I shot 5 groups all back to back at 100 yards... all were 1" or less with off the shelf ammo. I am just now starting to test true match grade ammo. Needless to say I loved the barrel so much that I called Rainier Arms about nitride or melanite treatment for the barrel to extend it's life... and the answer came back "NO WAY. Don't." They have a proprietary system that hardens the barrel to the optimal performance. Any of the two previously mentioned treatments make the barrel too hard. Repeated shooting causes the then brittle metal to eventually crack... and they told me that if I do anything to it it will decrease the barrel life by about 20%.

    At the same time their treatments of the barrel will give me 12,000 to 15,000 rounds down range (at least) before it starts to 'fall off' in performance. Stainless steel performance with that kind of life... not too shabby for $250 bucks or so.
    Has there been any testing to verify these longevity claims?
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    How does one measure the quality level?
    With a quality level meter



    Alternatively, you can just use a quality level:



    Or, you can estimate it by taking into consideration things like materials, workmanship, accuracy, and customer service. That is the method I generally use since I don't want to invest in the special instrumentation/tooling.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Has there been any testing to verify these longevity claims?
    Yes sir. Rainier Arms torture testing prior to the barrels being released.

    I called Rainier Arms to ask them about Melaniting or Nitriding the barrel and they told me 'absolutely not' because it's already been treated with their own stuff. They said I could do it but it would lead to a 15-20% decrease in barrel life.

    I had a 45 minute conversation about it with them directly about my barrel and asked them point blank about the life and other things. The particular person I spoke to was a competition 3 gunner and he said he uses the same barrel in his personal weapons. Based on Rainier's official testing and his personal use that was the estimate he gave. '12,000 to 15,000 down range before you see any fall off in performance' is a direct quote. Of course he gave the caveat of 'extremely hard use' such as running fully automatic fire or whatever... More or less he said it wasn't an exact science.... but that is what their own test results yielded.

    They got batches before they were released and tested small batches of them while they were being developed. That is the reason for their proprietary treatment process.

    Melanite and Nitride treatments work with some metals but the underlying metal and type of stainless steel used for barrels is a bit softer... so a softer flexible center and super hard treatment led to a fall off of about 20% in barrel life due mainly to cracking because of repeated recoil. This led Rainier to develop their own treatments that aren't 'as hard' as those other two but allow for a substantial increase in barrel life. They tried and found that 'sweet spot'.

    Apparently the first batch they had made they nitrided and tried to failure... and the second batch they melanited also shot both to failure points... then they examined and discovered 'why'...and so on and so forth...

    I can tell you that based on my direct conversations with them that I am extremely impressed by them. They have their act together.

    I personally haven't tested it to failure points, nor do I intend to. I can only take them at their word.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    How does one measure the quality level?
    Don't know about you guys but I choose critical gun parts by using the eenie meenie miney mo method :)

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    How does one measure the quality level?
    This is a very good question that a lot of people should be asking.

    I think 'quality' is all relative to what one expects. Most people have a 'sharp picture of a fuzzy concept' when it comes to most things, guns included. I never owned an AR until recently so I am not very qualified to say one way or another, but I would say 'quality' is a function of 'intended use'... which many people fail to define.

    For me I personally took a leap of faith and bought stuff... but I only did so after asking a lot of different people about it and taking special note of the people whom I felt had a 'special knowledge' of things and whom I very much respect their opinions. In fact several members of the forum, like Stickman, and UWone and others doled out some pretty sound advice, but it was only as good as the concept of the gun that I had in my mind.

    At the end of the day I do not believe there is just one 'good' manufacturer.... I believe there are many...giving us all a whole lot of nice choices where we patronize.

    All I know is I am overjoyed with the parts I have. CMT Tactical uppers and lowers are fan-friggin-tastic. And it's not just form but function, and value. Their 'no roll pins' assembly is just genius.

    Rainier Arms has their crap together. No doubt about it.

    SLR Rifleworks gave me a very good product.

    CMC triggers... I like it. A LOT.

    Please note this does not leave anyone out of my willingness to try and test out their stuff. Quality and value... no doubt make a good couple. That said, once again, in a crowded market place of so many vendors that do turn out great products... 'quality' is a function of intended use... but then again there are things that just flat out suck... but I am talking amongst those companies that make good solid parts.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Yes sir. Rainier Arms torture testing prior to the barrels being released.
    Is there somewhere we can read about this testing, procedures, methods, results, etc.?
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    Or, you can estimate it by taking into consideration things like materials, workmanship, accuracy, and customer service. That is the method I generally use since I don't want to invest in the special instrumentation/tooling.
    which we base on... What, exactly?

    See when I see this barrel which is a known product from a known entity that is $230
    http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-1...d-16%20std.htm

    And then I see this barrel that appears to be representing an equal product for $70 less
    https://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?p...odern-series-2

    The LAST thing I think is "ooooh, that must be a good value". What I think is, "I wonder what corners they are cutting to save that $70".
    Last edited by rob_s; 25 January 2015 at 17:03.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Is there somewhere we can read about this testing, procedures, methods, results, etc.?
    I don't know if the results were published or not. It would be completely dumb if they did though. They do all the testing then everyone else (including competitors) get to see the results? That wouldn't be very bright.

    I am only basing my comments on a quite long conversation that I had directly with a Rainier Arms representative.

    If in doubt call them yourself and ask what the barrel life is on a select medcon stainless barrel. See what they tell you.

    I already had mine in hand and I liked it so much that I wanted to make it last longer...so I called them because their website only alludes to some sort of 'treatment' but I wanted clarification before I did anything.

  12. #42
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    Yet, another thread about barrels. Thank you...

    Rob_s do you troll just to troll or is the a method to your madness?? I know your a long standing member but I see no point in the pointless questions you're asking. If someone decides the barrel is of quality to them and does what is needed what else matters. Do you have all the required testing materials to do the millions on testing most companies do? I mean no harm but really?!?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    which we base on... What, exactly?

    See when I see this barrel which is a known product from a known entity that is $230
    http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-1...d-16%20std.htm

    And then I see this barrel that appears to be representing an equal product for $70 less
    https://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?p...odern-series-2

    The LAST thing I think is "ooooh, that must be a good value". What I think is, "I wonder what corners they are cutting to save that $70".
    I also thought the same way and was skeptical because of the price. Now I would never steer anyone away from BCM because I've had great success with them, but looking at my one example of Ballistic Advantage Modern series barrels compared to a BCM they are both superb. Now your correct only thousands of rounds and many examples can quantify this, but a quick peek around Google shows many other similar stories of success.


  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Is there somewhere we can read about this testing, procedures, methods, results, etc.?
    From my understanding and conversation they didn't test just one barrel. They had a series of barrels for testing to remove any doubt about consistency or some one off problem or whatever...

    Then some how or another over a period of time had people sitting back behind the things pulling the trigger. Exact (if any) methodology I don't know.

    This is just speculation on my part but they could have just handed out a couple dozen free barrels to 3 gun competitors with the caveat that they keep records of approximate round counts and when they wear out to just send them back in for inspection. I don't know if it was done over a month or 6 months. I have no idea.

    But the guy basically told me that once they had the formula on the things 'right' they went long on them and put their stamp on them. They didn't want to create a bunch of warranty issues and all that so all they really told me was that they tested them quite a bit before going all in.

  15. #45
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    Not putting words in Rob's mouth, but if your assembling a rifle to stake your life on wouldn't you spend a little extra and get a barrel from a company with some history. Not saying that the other companies don't pump out a great product, but they don't have the documented test on their products or as many people running their products. Companies like Colt, BCM and Daniel Defense are tested and true with prices competitive with a lot of other companies. There are a lot of companies making a great product but only a few that have pedigree.
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