I found my zero

[alamo5000]

I am thinking that for however many dollars I can have the Vortex 1-4x and the 2.5-10 FFP both in MOA. I can zero them and swap out as needed depending on my mood.

Seriously man... if I get both of these I already know I am gonna end up with a supressed SBR for the 1-4x and the one I have now will have the 2.5-10x and be my 300 yard/shooting groups gun.

[Former11B]

With my scope that I have now there isn't any windage or whatever. It's 110% Kentucky. That said I guess with a 1-4x you're probably not calculating out things. Like I said though, 'tactically' I am not really 110% sure how to use 1-4x. You're talking about a country boy with zero tactical training. I think part of my metal delimma is that I am trying to overlay my 'tin can shooting' history with ALL optics. I need to learn more about HOW all these other things work both in theory and in practice.

I think Gator was talking about scopes with MIL reticles and MOA turrets and the difference in adjustments that are necessary

[alamo5000]

I think Gator was talking about scopes with MIL reticles and MOA turrets and the difference in adjustments that are necessary

Oh yes, I get that. It's not like you have to do all this math anyway. A mismatch just complicates things.

My comment that you quoted was aside from that. What I was saying is that I am a back yard tin can shooter with zero training. Lets take a completely different optic for example. Lets use the SRS. Would you mount that optic on a rifle with 24 inch match grade barrel? Yes it would work but is that the best match for how the optic was designed? On the other hand would an SRS match better with a 12" SBR meant for clearing houses by a SWAT officer?

I am basically saying that I don't know the best pairings and much about the professional intent behind some of these lower power optics or even lower power settings and how I should be trying to think about those in terms of intended use.

[gatordev]

Oh yes, I get that. It's not like you have to do all this math anyway. A mismatch just complicates things.

My comment that you quoted was aside from that. What I was saying is that I am a back yard tin can shooter with zero training. Lets take a completely different optic for example. Lets use the SRS. Would you mount that optic on a rifle with 24 inch match grade barrel? Yes it would work but is that the best match for how the optic was designed? On the other hand would an SRS match better with a 12" SBR meant for clearing houses by a SWAT officer?

I am basically saying that I don't know the best pairings and much about the professional intent behind some of these lower power optics or even lower power settings and how I should be trying to think about those in terms of intended use.

Since I know you're a details guy and looking to dive deep into what you're using, here's some suggestions:

-Whichever type of reticule (mil or MOA) you decide, get a reticule (on the 2.5-10) that has a basic milling reticule. No dots, pies, BDCs, etc. Get one that has the mil or MOA sub-tensions. This gives you room to grow into the scope as you learn it.

-Since you like Kentucky windage, get a FFP scope. If you miss the target but see the splash, all you really have to do is move the reticule point where the splash was over the target, regardless of mag. This isn't a requirement for precision shooting, but it sure is a nice feature to have.

-I'd start off with matching turrets and reticule because it's a place to start and a way to learn the system. As I said, it's not the end of the world to have mismatched units, but to make corrections more quickly takes additional steps.

[SINNER]

Since I know you're a details guy and looking to dive deep into what you're using, here's some suggestions:

-Whichever type of reticule (mil or MOA) you decide, get a reticule (on the 2.5-10) that has a basic milling reticule. No dots, pies, BDCs, etc. Get one that has the mil or MOA sub-tensions. This gives you room to grow into the scope as you learn it.

-Since you like Kentucky windage, get a FFP scope. If you miss the target but see the splash, all you really have to do is move the reticule point where the splash was over the target, regardless of mag. This isn't a requirement for precision shooting, but it sure is a nice feature to have.

-I'd start off with matching turrets and reticule because it's a place to start and a way to learn the system. As I said, it's not the end of the world to have mismatched units, but to make corrections more quickly takes additional steps.

that technique works with a 2nd focal plane optic too as long as magnification is unchanged.

[BoilerUp]

Care to expand on this?

Are you saying for longer range MIL is better?

This is yet another discussion I want to have. MIL vs MOA... at the end of the day the Milirad gives you .36 inches at 100 yards on your clicks and a 1/4 MOA click scope (like the Vortex) gives you .26 inches per click. Seems to me that the MOA (if we are being technical about it) would be more accurate... but I don't know.

I'm not saying MIL is better. Frankly, I'm not qualified to say one way or the other. But as I've been researching optics in support of a SPR / DMR build I'm planning, I've come to the conclusion that a) it doesn't really matter as either will work, but b) most of the long range shooters out there, especially those with a military background, are using MIL. I've decided my SPR scope will be configured as MIL primarily so I learn to speak the same language as those I'm most likely to be learning from.

Regarding precision, you are talking a 1" difference at a thousand yards where even very good rifles have accuracy that will be around 5 inches at the same range. And how much magnification do you need in an optic to even discern 1" of movement on target at a 1000? Certainly a 10x won't give you that.

My next scope will be for shooting between 200-600 yards, so I think the PST 2.5-10x32 FFP will fill that need nicely, and frankly I may just go with the SFP version to save some $ as, realistically, the price premium for the FFP probably isn't really worth it for the type of shooting I do (bench rest on a known distance range and, hopefully someday, large game hunting in WA.

[Former11B]

I know optics and magnification or personal preference, but if I'm shooting 600 yards, I'd look at something in the 4–16x or even 6-20x range, you can always dial back the magnification. However, if you have a 2.5-10x and max it out, you might wish you had a little more at that range. But it also depends on the type of shooting you're doing. Are you shooting man-size silhouettes or are you shooting six-inch steel gongs? It all depends on how well you need to be able to see

I agree with gator in the fact that I feel like Alamo needs a plain MilDot reticle. Some of the BDC or fancy reticles can over complicate things and it some points are only good for a specific type of ammo. Learn the basics with the MilDot. ACOGs are about the only scope with a range to drop compensation reticle that I trust

[tact]

Here is a pretty good article I pretty much agree with....plus it saves me from typing a bunch on my phone...

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/ChoosingScope.asp

[Former11B]

Here is a pretty good article I pretty much agree with....plus it saves me from typing a bunch on my phone...

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/ChoosingScope.asp

I agree with a lot of what the article said about magnification for combat type optics and human engagement. If you are trying to score hits, and not place ten shots out of ten in a 1/2 MOA group, a 10x is perfect. However a benchrest shooter or precision/match rifle has a different requirement. I am building an SPR, which doesn't require massive amounts of magnification; like my 16", it's a "combat" type of build and large targets (about 24"x19") are my goal. If I was building a varmint 22-250 or a match .260, itd be a different story.

Also, eyesight does have some to do with it; my dad just had to go from a 3-9X to a 4-12 on his .30-06 because it age 65, things were getting hard to see at 100 yards

[gatordev]

that technique works with a 2nd focal plane optic too as long as magnification is unchanged.

Well, crap, you're right. I guess I should have clarified that if you're trying to make adjustments based off the splash with a SFP and you're not at the calibrated mag, then the reticule isn't all that helpful. Thanks for the correction.

That said, another reason I personally have become spoiled with FFP is because I can use the reticule as a BDC at any mag (assuming I can see the reticule at that mag). I've found that helpful during the few times I've been running against a clock, or even just having a friendly competition with my dad.