Hello! Newbie questions.

[IAHUNTER11]

Thanks GaSwamper I think i might give them a shot. What's the worst than can happen? I have to buy a different barrel? Oh no. Haha.

[UWone77]

Thanks GaSwamper I think i might give them a shot. What's the worst than can happen? I have to buy a different barrel? Oh no. Haha.

I like the way this guy thinks....

[alamo5000]

I was doing a bit of research on barrels just now since I'm thinking 16" now. I ran across a company that talks very highly of their own barrels. They seem to be fairly prices so wondering if anyone has had any experience with the equipment from. Integrity Arms. I was looking at 4150 moly with melonite 1:8 twist.

Here is what I have learned about barrels. I will try to keep it sort of simple. Keep in mind I am the FNG who was asking all these same questions not too long ago so UWone77 might tease me still... but I was in your shoes not long ago.

Lets start with basic forms of metal. All metals have characteristics such as hardness and grain and fine-ness or whatever other kind of things you can think up. Softer metals are easier to mill and easier milling means you can have a much nicer more uniform bore tip to tail of the barrel. Hence most of the match barrels are made from a softer form a metal which would mean stainless steel. (There are more than one kind of stainless steel).

Other types of barrels are made from harder substances but because of their inheirent nature they can withstand a whole lot more abuse (say full automatic fire). There are various extremes here that I am trying to point out. They can still be pretty accurate but they won't match a truly well bored barrel from people who take their time to do it. So if you have the same guy taking the same about of care using one metal vs the other one will give more accuracy than the other.

Conversely and crappily made bore with a nicer metal will perform poorly when compared to a nicely bored metal done with materials that are harder to work with.

If you are going with 416R or some similar stainless steel, because it is softer it can have more flex under fire. All of them have flex under fire it just depends on how much and the barrel profile.

What those treatments such as nitride etc etc do is penetrate the metal and basically make a hardened surface on the metal in order to make it last longer. Nitride on a different kind of metal might make that barrel last forever under full auto fire... whereas with a different underlying metal the benefits might be different in nature.

With my particular barrel I called up Rainier Arms and they told me they tried Melonite and Nitride both on the 416R and those barrels had a 15 to 20% LESS barrel life. It was more than bare 416R but not used to its maximum potential.

In essence those treatments made the surface of the barrel TOO hard and when the inherent flex occurs during firing it would lead over time to cracking and eventually failure. Think softer core with a harder crust being constantly whipped around under fire...

What Rainier has done is created a proprietary system that gets to that sweet spot where it's hard enough to make the barrel life last, but it also allows for flex without the cracking. It substantially increases the barrel life of a stainless barrel of this nature. They told me to expect 12,000 to 15,000 rounds down range with their barrels with that proprietary treatment. This is substantial considering the untreated 416R would be half or less than half of that under the same shooting conditions.

Again though if you are shooting full auto the barrel just won't last. There was recently a thread where a guy machine gunned a melonited stainless barrel and he got to about 900 rounds or so before the barrel ruptured. If you shoot like I do though... more plinking... you will never really get that heat build up which in turn makes the barrel last longer.

As for twist 1:8 is fine. I am getting extremely good accuracy with 69 grain rounds. As I said just today I shot 3 shots into a .7 inch group today at 100 yards. 1:7 would be fine too but it's not going to make that much difference especially at 200 yards. You can shoot heavier grains with more twist but I can attest to the ability to shoot 69's through a 1:8. I would be very confident going well into the 70's on grain weight with a 1:8.

I am sure I can go heavier even still. But price out any 77 grain ammo... it's not cheap. Accuracy is a function of gun harmonics (vibrations), the bore being concentric end to end, and ammo. It's all a big soup if you're looking for accuracy. You can have a match grade everything but if you shoot crap ammo your shots won't be that good no matter what you do. Again, think soup not component.

In the end the people who make the barrels are going to determine if the bore has any inconsistencies in it. Good manufacturing is just that. Good. Poor is just that. Poor. You can get better performance from lesser quality materials that are machined properly than from higher quality materials that are machined poorly.

My goal when I built was to have an accurate rifle and I am satisfied with what I got. I also got a great barrel life. For me 10,000 plus rounds would be at least 5 years life (or more) for me. I could have bought a barrel that would have lasted me until I die but the trade off would be that I might not get those sub MOA shots that I obsess over. It's not a rule its just a concept.

[Ride4frnt]

Oh no. You opened the flood gates. Now UW is gonna give you flak for that anderson lower! I just built three guns on anderson lowers and all there were a-ok. And to be honest I think they all had better finishes than my previous forged lowers. I will say though, their finish seems to be a lot different than some others, thus harder to match.

Also, if I may make a suggestion. If you're not dead set on melonite finish, check out the rainier select barrels. Very nice entry level barrels.

[IAHUNTER11]

Is the anderson lower that bad!? Do I need to start over? Haha.

Thank you alamo that is a lot to think about. I'm not super crazy accuracy mind set. Would it be nice? Of course. Am I capable? idk. I don't have a lot of experience with rifles. I had just read a lot of good things about the melonite. But that is also why I asked here bc experience beats paper in my book any day.

[UWone77]

Is the anderson lower that bad!? Do I need to start over? Haha.

Just don't be lame and SBR that lower.

[alamo5000]

Also, if I may make a suggestion. If you're not dead set on melonite finish, check out the rainier select barrels. Very nice entry level barrels.

+1

For sure. What he said^^^^

They aren't melonite finish but they do have Rainier's own finish on them. They get an A+ with three gold stars from me.

[IAHUNTER11]

Ok what's SBR?
I will take a look at the rainers

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Is the anderson lower that bad!? Do I need to start over? Haha.

Thank you alamo that is a lot to think about. I'm not super crazy accuracy mind set. Would it be nice? Of course. Am I capable? idk. I don't have a lot of experience with rifles. I had just read a lot of good things about the melonite. But that is also why I asked here bc experience beats paper in my book any day.

Anderson is A-OK but he's still butthurt that he could have won a sweet SanTan Tactical lower but lives in a commie state and is a stones throw from 2 different non-commie states...

[alamo5000]

Thank you alamo that is a lot to think about. I'm not super crazy accuracy mind set. Would it be nice? Of course. Am I capable? idk. I don't have a lot of experience with rifles. I had just read a lot of good things about the melonite. But that is also why I asked here bc experience beats paper in my book any day.

Nothing is wrong with Melonite provided it's used as it's intended. I was just saying what little I have learned about it and the dynamics make sense (at least to me). I think some people just do it to do it and it might not be the best thing. But with a harder stiffer underlying metal it could be another miracle worker. I am not against it at all. Just saying don't just get it just because. Get it for the purpose you need it for.

And yes, most of the time the rifle is better than the shooter. It is certainly the case for me.

[UWone77]

Anderson is A-OK but he's still butthurt that he could have won a sweet SanTan Tactical lower but lives in a commie state and is a stones throw from 2 different non-commie states...

You know that reminds me.... I'm going to see if I can get Ride another lower here. I'll work on it.

[IAHUNTER11]

I was considering it bc of longevity and ease of cleaning from what I have read.

[alamo5000]

Ok what's SBR?

This is just screaming out 'pics'.

Go get him guys!!! LOL

[Ride4frnt]

Just don't be lame and SBR that lower.

Hey, SBR is a SBR. The way I see it, I'm lucky to be able to have one at all, so it's a win in my book. Also something I'm not afraid to beat around. For a forged lower, I was very pleased, besides that god forsaken HUGE roll mark.

I've taken to calling my SBR "Mustang Sally"

Anderson is A-OK but he's still butthurt that he could have won a sweet SanTan Tactical lower but lives in a commie state and is a stones throw from 2 different non-commie states...

And you can kiss my butthurt butt.

[IAHUNTER11]