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  1. #61
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    I'm working right now on paring down to either two or three. If it's two, one will be an SBR with a Switchblock to be home-defense-suppressed/compact-lightweight-unsuppressed. If its three, one will be a dedicated suppressed SBR, one will be a dedicated up suppressed SBR. In either case, the other gun will be a 16" with a 1.x-Y optic on it for general training and competing and plinking.

    I am well and good eover Barbie guns and other nonsense like like "my next build", and can't purge fast enough. I get that some people are into that, and I guess I was too at one time, but what I learned over that time is its all just a giant waste of money to me.
    Last edited by rob_s; 1 March 2015 at 14:13.
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  2. #62
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    It is impossible to reach saturation with AR's or any guns in general. There is no such thing as saturation or too much ammo. It is far better to have more than needed than to need it and not have it. I hope I never need to kill people again. However, I do need to kill animals for their meat. That's OK with me. IF I do ever have to kill people again to protect fellow innocent citizens, I will do so with no qualms. I won't lose sleep for having done so either. So, I just need to make sure I have plenty of ammo on hand. If I run out, I do have a few goto guys who have 10's of thousands of rounds within a few miles of our home.
    Freedom is NEVER Free. We have to work to protect it and even be willing to die to protect it.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I'm working right now on paring down to either two or three. If it's two, one will be an SBR with a Switchblock to be home-defense-suppressed/compact-lightweight-unsuppressed. If its three, one will be a dedicated suppressed SBR, one will be a dedicated up suppressed SBR. In either case, the other gun will be a 16" with a 1.x-Y optic on it for general training and competing and plinking.

    I am well and good eover Barbie guns and other nonsense like like "my next build", and can't purge fast enough. I get that some people are into that, and I guess I was too at one time, but what I learned over that time is its all just a giant waste of money to me.
    I think your onto something there Rob. Having 2-3 "purpose" driven rifles for specific tasks.

    However being a mechanic for so many years makes the building process enjoyable. But a waste of money, Barbie guns, purging? The same could be said of a switchblock SBR. Alot of folks would think a plain Jane DPMS good enough and never think of an AR again -- It's all in your perspective. Good luck pairing down


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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I'm working right now on paring down to either two or three. If it's two, one will be an SBR with a Switchblock to be home-defense-suppressed/compact-lightweight-unsuppressed. If its three, one will be a dedicated suppressed SBR, one will be a dedicated up suppressed SBR. In either case, the other gun will be a 16" with a 1.x-Y optic on it for general training and competing and plinking.

    I am well and good eover Barbie guns and other nonsense like like "my next build", and can't purge fast enough. I get that some people are into that, and I guess I was too at one time, but what I learned over that time is its all just a giant waste of money to me.
    I've been through this before, but mainly with "mainstream" firearms, mostly sporting rifles, or more specifically bolt action hunting rifles and pistols, and a bunch of 1911's and odds and ends. I couldn't possibly keep up with all of it, I shot very little commercial ammo, and owned several "roll your own" calibers that were no longer commercially available, the logistics of reloading for it all was getting out of hand, and I was retiring for good, for a second time. Also except for small game and upland birds, my hunting career had just about petered out. I had a bunch of cash setting in those safes, doing nothing, but being frustrating keeping up with what was sighted in, what I had ammo loaded for, etc.

    I auctioned off most of it, with the exception of a few pieces that had sentimental value.

    I had a couple of commercial AR's then, that I kept.

    Fast forward, now I have, among other things, safe full of AR's. Don't know how I got there, but I just needed one for this scenario or that. I don't think I'm going to completely purge like Rob_s but I think my policy from now on is one for one. If I acquire one, then one has to go. Just keeping up with what's sighted in, with what ammo, and other considerations, is becoming a pain in the ass, that tends to make me lose a little interest in the whole AR world.

    I'm not being the least bit judgemental , if someone wants to build and keep an entire walk in vault full of AR's, have at it. I think 7 or 8 is plenty enough for me.
    Last edited by FortTom; 1 March 2015 at 20:10.
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  5. #65
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    The last few post show a very good perspective. A lot of my shooting buddies have a lot more firearms than I do. Most of mine are family hand me downs that I love and shoot quite frequently.

    For some reason my buddies will bring some of their firearms to me to take out when I go shoot. They even bring me ammo. I often shoot by myself and quite enjoy it. Then when I return their firearms they tell me what new they have acquired.

    I like to have new stuff just as much as the next guy, but I don't like having firearms that I don't shoot. If I find myself wanting something different, I usaully sell something. My buddies have fallen victim to collecting and don't come and shoot nearly as much as they used to. Reminds me of some who like to aquire as many ladies as they can instead of loving the one they have.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutyUse View Post
    CMT is only a little over 100 miles from me so I shot Jeff and email and he said he would love to help me out with the project.

    I want to give the WEVO build justice so I'm leaning heavily away from the PSA lower, even if it had our logo deep laser engraved.

    I've been corresponding with Jeff off and on for a bit and I'm hoping/trying to see if he would let me get one of their Billet Sets naked and without their CMT logo and then have the WEVO logo as the "rollmark". Not sure it will happen though.

    That project kind of got pushed to the back burner as possible legislation has lite a fire under me to get my trust finalized and the paperwork for my SBR and suppressor quickly. Never know when some piece of garbage will get rammed down the pipe and lose that right forever.
    Sorry, missed this earlier. Maybe I'm missing something; but on the right side of the receivers, it's completely blank no? Or do you specifically want the WEVO logo on the left side?

    Frankly, I'm fixing on getting one of the ambi lowers and have the blank (right) side engraved with the WEVO logo. Btw, would Jeff be willing to do a deep laser engraving? I never considered that lol. ... I've yet to contact Jeff.

    And ouch ~ best of luck with your NFA stuff.

  7. #67
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    AR's Have You Reached Saturation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thompson View Post
    Sorry, missed this earlier. Maybe I'm missing something; but on the right side of the receivers, it's completely blank no? Or do you specifically want the WEVO logo on the left side?

    Frankly, I'm fixing on getting one of the ambi lowers and have the blank (right) side engraved with the WEVO logo. Btw, would Jeff be willing to do a deep laser engraving? I never considered that lol. ... I've yet to contact Jeff.

    And ouch ~ best of luck with your NFA stuff.
    I haven't yet met Jeff Cross in person but he is a second generation machinist, very talented and personable. I imagine if you email (don't tie up their phones) he'd help you. I wasn't here then but CMT did a run of WEVO laser engraved PMAGs. He still had the file, and laser engravers work FAST so he didn't seem to mind helping me as long as it didn't tie up his machine obviously.

    Depends on the receiver, but correct most have a blank right magwell. The PSA stealth I have is almostentirely blank. An 80% is completely sanitary.

    However almost all companies put their "rollmark" on the left. Thats traditionally the spot where you recognize the brand. So I'm fairly adamant about putting the WEVO logo there. Plenty of guys get laser engraving on the right. And it normally turns out wonderfully.
    Last edited by DutyUse; 2 March 2015 at 00:56.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutyUse View Post
    But a waste of money, Barbie guns, purging? The same could be said of a switchblock SBR. Alot of folks would think a plain Jane DPMS good enough and never think of an AR again -- It's all in your perspective.
    Yes it is. My perspective is that accumulating crap just to accumulate crap is a waste of money. I don't care if it's Elvis collector plates, beer steins, or guns. Objects and items, for me, are not about the ownership but about what I can do with them. They are there to support a task or as a tool for use in an activity. I don't collect suitcases for the sake of posting to suitcase forums about my latest purchase/project, I have a couple for the purposes of travel. One large for long trips, one small for short trips. I don't own a 9mm Ar because:project or because:”build" or because:neato or because:Internet-picture-posting, I own one because there are matches I participate in where it's the only rifle I can shoot, and ranges where only pistol-caliber ammo is allowed.

    If the DPMS owner has a defined purpose and his DPMS is fulfilling that purpose, then I have no issue with it. In fact, at one time DPMS was the choice of a lot of 3-gun ears, for whatever reason (probably because at the time there wasn't a TV show and the only people cheaper than 3-gunners were USPSA shooters). I find the accumulation of things, for the sake of accumulation, to be odd as fuck.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutyUse View Post
    I think your onto something there Rob. Having 2-3 "purpose" driven rifles for specific tasks.

    However being a mechanic for so many years makes the building process enjoyable. But a waste of money, Barbie guns, purging? The same could be said of a switchblock SBR. Alot of folks would think a plain Jane DPMS good enough and never think of an AR again -- It's all in your perspective. Good luck pairing down


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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Yes it is. My perspective is that accumulating crap just to accumulate crap is a waste of money. I don't care if it's Elvis collector plates, beer steins, or guns. Objects and items, for me, are not about the ownership but about what I can do with them. They are there to support a task or as a tool for use in an activity. I don't collect suitcases for the sake of posting to suitcase forums about my latest purchase/project, I have a couple for the purposes of travel. One large for long trips, one small for short trips. I don't own a 9mm Ar because:project or because:”build" or because:neato or because:Internet-picture-posting, I own one because there are matches I participate in where it's the only rifle I can shoot, and ranges where only pistol-caliber ammo is allowed.

    If the DPMS owner has a defined purpose and his DPMS is fulfilling that purpose, then I have no issue with it. In fact, at one time DPMS was the choice of a lot of 3-gun ears, for whatever reason (probably because at the time there wasn't a TV show and the only people cheaper than 3-gunners were USPSA shooters). I find the accumulation of things, for the sake of accumulation, to be odd as fuck.
    Rob for the most part is right on the accumulating or collecting. A lot of folks either go down one of two paths when they get into shooting, either they end up shooting a lot or they end up collecting. Most do not have the time or funds to do both.

    I've got friends with safes loaded to the gills with firearms, so many that they can't remember how many or what they have. One had over 400 till he got divorced. That same friend is the same one that would bring me firearms and ammo to go shoot, he rarely came out and shot though. When he came out though he quickly found out his skill set wasn't where he hoped it was, then usually ended up just shooting the breeze rather than the firearms he brought.

    I've got friends that their only rifle is a DPMS that have no idea what a Noveske is. But they run circles around a lot of folks at the range. If you have the funds to both collect and go shoot, then power to you. But don't let collecting get in the way of shooting or training.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGifford View Post
    I decided to go ahead and bite when I saw them selling gently loved for $1850 on ARFcom. If I have to dump this one, I will wait about 5-6 months, as Trijicon just increased dealer cost AGAIN on them. I got mine for $1999 shipped. Dealer cost has gone from about $1500/ea to nearly $1900/ea for the "base" model with thumbscrews.

    I have played with them a few times.

    What issues did you personally have?

    If you want optical superiority, the K16i/Z6i are the no-brainer choices. I played with those, too. They ARE the best 1-6X in the terms of optical performance.

    So why did I go VCOG?

    Because
    I liked the keyed mount.
    I liked the AA power.
    I liked the added ruggedness to the housing (the area I live/hunt is rocky and steep. I have fallen with a rifle before. Safe handling means noone gets truly hurt, but the optic could indeed sustain damage.)

    These were all advantages that I gave up: slightly better illumination, 30% more FOV for.

    The weight of the VCOG and K16i is nearly identical when both are placed on QD mount solutions from the same company. As, within 2oz or so.

    Anyway, why did YOU dump the VCOG, specifically?
    You pretty much touched on the issues I had with the VCOG.

    Optic is very dim. When I find myself choosing a Accupoint or Vortex Viper due to overcast conditions that is an issue.

    The illumination is very dim in daylight also.

    And by far the biggest issue I had was the diopter was not consistent through out the zoom range. If the reticle was sharp at 6x it was unusable at 1x. Ultimately I set it at 3x and lived with the compromise. I would imagine that is a result of the eye relief being unchanged regardless of magnification.

    I often found myself frustrated when using the optic and just took a loss and traded it on some other items at a LGS. I truly think their are better options for half the cost of the VCOG.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CK 187 View Post
    What is this "too many" you speak of?
    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    You'll know when you get there...
    I beleive you mean that my wife will let me know when I get there

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOST View Post
    But don't let collecting get in the way of shooting or training.
    That right there is the money quote

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Yes it is. My perspective is that accumulating crap just to accumulate crap is a waste of money. I don't care if it's Elvis collector plates, beer steins, or guns. Objects and items, for me, are not about the ownership but about what I can do with them. They are there to support a task or as a tool for use in an activity. I don't collect suitcases for the sake of posting to suitcase forums about my latest purchase/project, I have a couple for the purposes of travel. One large for long trips, one small for short trips. I don't own a 9mm Ar because:project or because:”build" or because:neato or because:Internet-picture-posting, I own one because there are matches I participate in where it's the only rifle I can shoot, and ranges where only pistol-caliber ammo is allowed.

    If the DPMS owner has a defined purpose and his DPMS is fulfilling that purpose, then I have no issue with it. In fact, at one time DPMS was the choice of a lot of 3-gun ears, for whatever reason (probably because at the time there wasn't a TV show and the only people cheaper than 3-gunners were USPSA shooters). I find the accumulation of things, for the sake of accumulation, to be odd as fuck.
    I bet the guy who bought a colt 6920 every month seemed like a real gun nut.., until the sandy hook shooting. Then his 1,100 investment tripled over night. Accumulation for the sake of accumulation? No some guns are shooters. Some are investments.

    Builds for Internet gun postings? Haha. Find a "build" post or rifle picture of mine before being here a good long while. That's not an accident. If that were my "thing" I'd have lead with it. No I came and stayed to help people. Not rip them because dang look that guys posting another build. Only reason I even started posting pictures of my personal rifles was the stimulation of conversation. This place was crickets a lot of times. Did I help change that, nope probably not. But I tried to help the forum grow. But the only thing i see you post about lately is whale jizz coatings and purging.


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    Last edited by DutyUse; 2 March 2015 at 09:24.

  14. #74
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    Whale jizz coatings? I'm afraid to ask... go easy man, whatever you do, it's all good.
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  15. #75
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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion on how many firearms is sufficient. A lot of the people who tried to make a large payday after Sandy Hook are stuck with rifles that didn't sell, I know this cause I work with quite few guys who tried this. Cheaper than Dirt also tried to capitalize on other's misfortunes also.

    There are some who want the most expensive rifle they can assemble. Then feed it the cheapest ammo they can find when they do shoot, which defeats the purpose of the nice barrel. It's like pumping 85 octane gas into a Ferrari. With all their money wrapped up in assembling this rifle they have little money for ammo, and the rifle is only as good as the one behind it.

    Rob_S has a valid argument against the so-called whale jizz. Companies like KAC have phosphate coated BCG's with very extensive torture test. John Noveske also was a fan of mil-spec phosphate coatings as quoted from his Recoil interview. Also Rob_S's posting about whale jizz isn't new, he's posting about it for awhile.
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