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  1. #16
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    Let's hope the new ETS design is even better.
    DEUTERONOMY 6:5
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    The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power - Nikola Telsa

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolboxluis00200 View Post
    best way to stay in the game is to
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
    Arnold as Conan if I remember correctly. Though it may have been Joan Rivers.

  3. #18
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    i hope the glock mags don't get set back
    $300 and 10 Pastrami Sandwiches and a case of Diet Coke. ( UWone77)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOST View Post
    Let's hope the new ETS design is even better.
    I'd imagine so. The Gen 1's have been out for a decent bit now; I'm sure they've got plenty of feedback already. In fact I remember ETS saying they've already got updates planned out for the Gen 2's already. Whether or not this whole debacle changes anything, however, is yet to be discovered.

  5. #20
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    Conan the Barbarian, not the Destroyer.

    And I will never purchase another magpul product.

  6. #21
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    ETSGroup posted this on the related thread here.


    Elite Tactical Systems Group is please to announce that we have reached a settlement agreement with Magpul regarding the patent infringement suit. We have agreed to make a small change to the follower in our AR15 magazine and to pay royalties for mags sold between May and October of 2014.

    We would like to give a little background explanation about our design and how the suit progressed. Among other things, Magpul's patent states that their mag design has a follower with a front and back leg, wherein the legs limit tilt if the follower within the housing. When we designed our mag and follower, we engineered all of our anti tilt functionality with just the front leg of our follower. Thus the back leg on our follower was simply there to act as a spring guide, nothing more. We thought that was not infringing on their patents. However, during the course of the suit we became aware of another patent in which Magpul claims only a follower with a front and back leg, no mention is made of those legs limiting tilt of the follower. Once we became aware of this claim and patent, we immediately agreed to remove the back leg from our follower. We knew this would have no impact on the overall anti tilt function of our follower and thus it would not affect the performance of our magazine. We started by manually removing all of the back legs from our existing inventory on 11-17-14. Every mag sold since that date has been of the new configuration without a back leg on the follower. In the following months, after some back and forth, we reached a settlement agreement with Magpul. That agreement was submitted to the court and signed by the judge on 2/19/2015.

    We are excited to resolve this issue and move forward. We want to make it clear to everyone that we will continue to sell the most advanced and durable AR15 magazines on the market.

    We also want to state that we absolutely did not copy Magpul's designs when we set out to create our magazine, as was evidenced by absolutely no affect on performance when we removed the back leg on our follower. We spent a year and a half designing, testing, tweaking, and perfecting our revolutionary mag to get it ready for market.

    The following is a list of features that separates our magazine from a Pmag:
    1. Material (obviously our translucent polymer is not even close to the material used in a Pmag, especially in impact resistance)
    2. Our patent pending, completely integrated coupling system
    3. Super easy disassembly
    4. Our specially designed grip ribs on the housing of our mag
    5. The grip rib on our floor plate that aids in extracting our mags from a pouch
    6. Our RRS (Rapid Recognition System) colored follower and base insert pieces for fast easy recognition from any angle with our see through housing

    We will continue to manufacture the best AR mags money can buy and we look forward to new and exciting products coming shortly.

    www.ETSgroup.us
    To me, this overall sounds like good news. ETS will still be cranking out great mags, albeit with a slight tweak to the design. The tone of Magpu's release gave me more of an impression that they required the action of a judge for a finding, but it appears this was an agreed disposition on the part of both parties. It would be nice to see Magpul clarify that.

    Non-coupled ETS mags are just about impossible to find right now, but I'm sure that will change soon. I'm hoping to find a good deal on a batch!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    On arfcom, ETS stated they changed the design and settled with Magpul. They are continuing to make magazines. I'm wondering if Magpul is just doing this for PR to put the bug in the consumers ear.
    We are required to defend patents and all intellectual property for it to remain valid.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Well that's frustrating. I understand Magpul protecting their intellectual property, but now I wish I had purchased more ETS mags. They worked great and the material used appeared to be stronger than Magpul's.
    You will still be able to buy magazines that are modified so as not to infringe on the patents.

    In regards to strength, we could easily formulate the PMag to match the impact strength of this and other magazines on the market by reducing our tensile strength (making the material softer). We choose not to do this as our testing shows a critical balance between impact and tensile strength for maximum reliability. Others disagree with this concept and build magazines differently.

    To see how much damage a PMag M3 can take and still function reliability please review the following testing videos.

    http://youtu.be/jQxYXTYohPI?list=PLL...rOsprdHo_TKJt7
    Last edited by Magpul; 26 February 2015 at 23:23.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpul View Post
    You will still be able to buy magazines that are modified so as not to infringe on the patents.

    In regards to strength, we could easily formulate the PMag to match the impact strength of the this and other magazines on the market by reducing our tensile strength (making the material softer). We choose not to do this as our testing shows a critical balance between impact and tensile strength for maximum reliability. Others disagree with this concept and build magazines differently.

    To see how much damage a PMag M3 can take and still function reliability please review the following testing videos.

    http://youtu.be/jQxYXTYohPI?list=PLL...rOsprdHo_TKJt7
    Thanks for chiming in Magpul.

    I will say that I've broken 6 or 7 Gen 2 PMags, but the Gen 3 seem to be much much stronger.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    Money talks. Those patents are so loosely written anyone with enough money could tear them apart in court. But just like suing the Feds over taxes, you can not compete in court with entities that spend more on toner than your companies' entire net worth.
    We have successfully defended these very patents against a company who is much larger than us and with deeper pockets.

  11. #26
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    What's up with all the hate on magpul? ETS admitted part of their design infringed their patent, whether it was non intention doesn't make a difference. If you had intellectual property, you'd want to defend it and protect it too.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by din View Post
    Conan the Barbarian, not the Destroyer.

    And I will never purchase another magpul product.
    We too like Conan the Barbarian and not Conan the Destroyer. (I often use the "time enough for the earth in the grave" quote when posting at 1 am rather than going to sleep)

    That said, we are a nation of Laws. Traffic Laws, Tax Laws, Firearms Laws, Property Laws and Intellectual Property Laws.

    Patents and Intellectual Property are probably the most important to freedom because it is the individual ownership thoughts and ideas. United States patent law is authorized by Article One, section 8, clause 8 of the U.S. Constitution itself which states:

    The Congress shall have power ... To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;


    Sorry to lose you as a customer but expecting us to not protect and defend our IP while having to abide by other existing patents under current US patent law is just ignorant.

  13. #28
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    Inevitably, Magpul was going to be in a position where people were going to take sides, for and against.

    From my understanding, ETS admitted the infringement, made a settlement that was agreeable to both parties, and the court confirmed it.

    I will continue to use and purchase Magpul products as well as ETS.

  14. #29
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    Thanks for joining the discussion and providing your input Magpul. Like many others, I've spent a lot of time and money with Magpul products. Remember selling the original Magpul out of the house? I'm sure there's plenty of folks who don't know how the product line evolved or how it started. I hope to see ETS flourish as well. Competition is good for the consumer.

  15. #30
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    I just wanted to chime in here and say that there are no hard feelings with Magpul defending their IP. Like I stated, we made an honest mistake, we have corrected it, and we are moving on.

    I do feel that Magpul's post regarding the resolution of the suit is definitely misleading the average reader (since most people are not attorneys). We have gotten tons of traffic and people asking if we are still making AR mags. And when we tell people that we are, they say that's not what Magpul's website says. Some people even think we are lying about us agreeing to a settlement. It really would be nice if you guys over at Magpul could make your post a little more clear about us reaching a settlement agreement.

    Either way, what's done is done. Time to turn our attention to the future.

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