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  1. #16
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    I shot another 35 rounds today with the MK6 trying some dedicated precision work and some plinking on some steel. I say precision work, but really I mean trying to shoot with consistency with some non-match ammo. My Noveske just isn't a huge fan of PPU M193 (although it likes it more than a Centurion Arms barrel I have), but I could at least keep it in a 3-4" group. I was also trying some Swiss Geco 55gr ammo for the first time and that had some impressive results for the price. Shooting each, though, I still find that the donut does get in the way a little bit with trying to be consistent with a POA if you're trying to shoot for groups. I've found this with match ammo as well as the cheap stuff mentioned above when shooting at a 8" Shoot 'n C and working all 5 sub-target areas. That said, I'm still able to work all 5 target areas with minimal spill over, so I guess it's still doing it's job.

    Switching to minute of steel, and all of that goes away. Super-clear image and no issues making hits shooting off-hand if you're steady and don't have too much mag. I'm starting to really enjoy this optic. I still think it's a little finicky in unconventional positions, but I think I'm going to try and run it in a competition this month to see how it does.

  2. #17
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    Can we get a picture of the TMR-D on 1x without illumination? It seems this is impossible to find...

  3. #18
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    You bet. I'll try to get it today at the range, but no promises. I'm bringing this as a backup rifle today, but since I ran it last week, it may not come out today. You might have to settle for a shot of the trees behind my yard, but their easily a good 75 yards away, so still a decent distance to show. More to follow...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    You bet. I'll try to get it today at the range, but no promises. I'm bringing this as a backup rifle today, but since I ran it last week, it may not come out today. You might have to settle for a shot of the trees behind my yard, but their easily a good 75 yards away, so still a decent distance to show. More to follow...
    That's fine, I'm just trying to determine one thing: Is it viable with a dead battery on 1X during the day without a light, and at night in the house with a WML bright enough to silhouette the reticle. What is your take? Pictures will be good, as well as curious about your personal interpretation of the dynamic.

  5. #20
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    It was one of those range days.... Show up and the range is closed to the public (no notice on the website or FB). Owner said it was on the web. Riiight. Our small group ended up at another range of opportunity, but it was much more chaotic and...just blah.

    But to answer your question, last week, I was actually having issues with getting the dot to show with how I was shouldering the weapon. This isn't new, and it's a known issue. I'd also argue it was a small training issue that could be corrected with more practice, but obviously you can't always have your head in the "perfect" position. So I did an experiment. I turned the dot off and jacked up the mag to 1.5x-ish. I found that to work fairly well for me (75yds and in to ~25). I then ran a RDS rifle and found target acquisition times were about on par. Sorry, I don't have timer times this time (sometimes I write them down, but not this time). But I felt I wasn't losing time because it was a variable optic. NOTE: I was using a op-rod gun for the RDS side of this test, so slightly more recoil impulse, but the big thing I was testing was target acquisition and not follow up shots, so I'd argue it wasn't the thing I was focusing on for this test.

    All that said... I'm finding the MK6 is a very clear optic, and good at lots of things, but I'm just finding it's not great at any of them. I'd like to keep practicing with it, so more to follow, but it's NOT a RDS substitute. That said, it's still lighter than something like a Vortex HD2, which seems to be pretty solid, albeit heavy.

    I, unfortunately, have no experience with it at night. I wish I did...but maybe sometime in the future. A picture will follow in the next day or so. Couldn't get anything today.

  6. #21
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    Ah. Thanks. I'm leaning hard towards the K16i based on that.

  7. #22
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    I just reread what I wrote yesterday. I think it took me an hour to write that because my wife kept talking at me. I should add to the following to the above...

    Part of what I wanted in a intermediate optic was near (or actual) 1x AND a reticule that allowed me to hold for wind (ie, a mil reticule). The MK6 does both of these well. From what I researched, the Kahles didn't meet the mil reticule requirement. Otherwise, it seemed like a solid option. Picture coming soon, I promise.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    I just reread what I wrote yesterday. I think it took me an hour to write that because my wife kept talking at me. I should add to the following to the above...

    Part of what I wanted in a intermediate optic was near (or actual) 1x AND a reticule that allowed me to hold for wind (ie, a mil reticule). The MK6 does both of these well. From what I researched, the Kahles didn't meet the mil reticule requirement. Otherwise, it seemed like a solid option. Picture coming soon, I promise.
    I want a scope I can use on 1x, illuminated or not, day or night or not (backed with a powerful WML).

  9. #24
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    Apologize for the delay, but here's two 1x pics. I did one on a "rough" surface that's harder to pick up the reticule on and then one on a white background. I don't think I have a fast enough lens to try and do a WML shot inside, but maybe I'll give it a try some time soon.

    *Note: It looks like the image in the scope is slightly darker than the world around it. I don't experience this AT ALL in real life. I think it's just the loss of light from the scope to my lens to my camera sensor that's causing that. In reality, everything seems uniformly bright, inside and outside of the scope, at 1x.



    Last edited by gatordev; 10 January 2016 at 13:43.

  10. #25
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    EXACTLY the pictures I was looking for. Thank-you very much!
    It honestly looks like the Kahles K16i would be better suited to my purpose, based on these photos. When I buy one, I will post a comparo review.

  11. #26
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    Glad it was helpful. Keep in mind, my lens is fairly long, so when your eye is actually behind the optic, the reticule is more prevalent than the pictures. Yes, it will still be small, obviously because of the FFP design, but it's not "as" small as depicted there. I tried to play with it by zooming in with my lens and adjusting the focus/lens position, but the results show it's not quite matching reality.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    Glad it was helpful. Keep in mind, my lens is fairly long, so when your eye is actually behind the optic, the reticule is more prevalent than the pictures. Yes, it will still be small, obviously because of the FFP design, but it's not "as" small as depicted there. I tried to play with it by zooming in with my lens and adjusting the focus/lens position, but the results show it's not quite matching reality.
    Understood. I'm pretty bent on the k16i though to be honest.

  13. #28
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    Just a re-visit, as I contemplate another optic. Have you been able to use the the MK6 on 1x effectively in various situations without the illumination? Do you still like the optic? Over-all feelings?

  14. #29
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    Out of curiosity, is your issue of running it "without illumination" because you can't leave it on all the time? If so, I can understand the concern. However, since it has individual "off" points in between the brightness settings, I'm not sure how big a deal that is. But I don't know your use case, so that might not be the solution for you.

    Overall feelings? It's a pretty amazing package that gives you a clear, 6x optic, a (for the most part) mil reticle (important to me), and doesn't weigh what a Vortex does. Personally, I also prefer the graduations of the reticle of the MK6 over the Vortex (which I've run a bit now, thanks to a buddy who is deployed but had a used one sent to me to play with until he gets back). However...

    The marks that create the donut start to be annoying at 300-400m if you're trying to shoot at something man-sized. And when I say man-sized, I don't mean a full silhouette, but a critical zone target (B/C). Personally, I try and keep the 18" x12" -ish sized target as my standard for distance accuracy. If I can consistently hit a B/C target at 800-ish meters with my .308, I'm happy, and same for 600-ish meters for my 5.56 guns. Anywho, if you have to hold, or just trying to quarter a B/C target at 400m at 6x, I find the donut starts to get in the way. I don't know that I could hit a B/C target at 600m with the MK6, even if I know the gun is capable.

    As for non-RDS 1x shooting... In Florida sunlight on a paper target, it works just fine (and my standard here is usually around a 4-5" target at CQB distances). At night, in a house with varying background colors and a light...I just can't answer that question, as I don't have the experience.

    So...given all of that, I have done some testing of my MK6 vs Vortex vs Elcan vs Aimpoint PRO. Unfortunately, they weren't all on the same upper, but muzzle device was eliminated from the test (via suppressor). Also, unfortunately, the MK6 upper was a middy Noveske upper (the same one that continues to cure cancer...cause it's awesome). Other uppers were a M4 MWS config (Vortex), MK18 config (Aimpoint), CQBR Block II (Elcan). Forgetting the positives of an extended rail (Noveske), in order of preference for 1x:

    - PRO
    - Elcan
    - MK6
    - Vortex

    The Elcan and the MK6 have the same battery problem, otherwise, the Elcan is more forgiving (with dot on...less so if you have it off, which is your question). The Vortex is an impressive piece of glass, but it's just so damn heavy, and would consistently be .15s slower than the PRO and the Elcan on a very simple 2-ish second 4-target transition test I've been running for all four optics. Also, as it turns out the Elcan is about the same weight as the MK6 with a LT mount.

    I understand why they did what they did with the MK6 red dot, as they only have so much room in the tube and the MK6 is considerably lighter than the USO 1-8 with the dot on the SFP, but the donut can get in the way at distance, if that matters to you.

    Wow, sorry about the novel. Just call me "alamo."

  15. #30
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    Forgot to add... I'm not a BDC fan, as it just creates too many variables. But for a 200m and in gun, that's why I rated the Elcan above the MK6. Shooting at 6000' with seasonal changes at ranges past 300m? I'd prefer the MK6, as I can adjust my DOPE with the conditions.

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