Being Honest With Myself About Accuracy....

[JHoward]

OK. So, the truth is, I want a rifle that will do sub MOA, and I don't mind spending the money. The problem is, I won't. I don't think I will ever hand load, and most likely the MAX I will ever need my rifle to do is 10" at 400 yards or so. I would be tickled to death with that actually. Most likely, it will see lots of 55 grain Independence, and maybe from time to time I'll buy a box or two of match ammo and let my wife try her hand at making a group, since she likes the slow stuff more than me.

So my dilemma is this....

http://www.shop.masdefense.com/18-22...8STFBBL-SS.htm

The MAS Defense barrels I have owned in the past were awesome. And although this isn't rifle length, I am thinking I could live with an 18" mid length.

Does anyone think that with my intended use, I REALLY should spend the extra $100 on another "name brand" match barrel?

[toolboxluis00200]

funny I was looking at that same barrel a weeks ago for the price and for what u want it for I think is a good deal

[rob_s]

Are you asking if that barrel is " good enough", or are you identifying it as a premium barrel? I'm not clear based on your post.

[alamo5000]

If you want a 16 or 18 inch stainless barrel look no farther than the rainier select medcon. Its not supposedly "match" but with that barrel I can get sub moa for sure. There is a big soup to accuracy. Its not just one thing.

The deal with rainier that sets them apart from other stainless barrels is the proprietary treatments they do. Uwone said he has over 9000 rounds through his and it is still going strong. The guys at rainier told me to expect 12 to 15000 rounds out of it....which is more than double a regular stainless barrel as to life.

When I built my AR I did it with accuracy in mind...and I got what I was after. To get sub moa all the time though I will either take a $1.25 per shot or reload (with better results) for about 40 cents or under per shot.

It all depends on what you want and how you shoot. I've been studying a whole bunch on barrels and I for sure felt like I got a fantastic one...I'm sure there are other options but I have been able to test those barrels out like the have the one I own.

[voodoo_man]

Buy any quality pre-built rifle and use match ammo for zero - you'll get what you are asking. (KAC, Noveske, Rainer, etc)

There are plenty of uppers available from very reputable places that will do exactly what you want, Rainer and Noveske are at the top for obvious reasons of quality.

I'd also suggest that while barrel is important, optic is just as important if more so.

[alamo5000]

Voodoo man nailed it. The three main pieces for accuracy are the barrel, the ammo and the optic. Triggers are huge as well. Accuracy at 100 yards is one thing but the farther you go out it changes the game.

I would say discuss more about accuracy even if its to the extreme and then work back to where you want. The world record is a .01 inch group for 5 shots at 100 yards or something obscene like that...but define what you find as acceptable and build it to match. For me I would rather have a little overkill but not everyone likes the same stuff I do.

[alamo5000]

The MAS Defense barrels I have owned in the past were awesome. And although this isn't rifle length, I am thinking I could live with an 18" mid length.

Does anyone think that with my intended use, I REALLY should spend the extra $100 on another "name brand" match barrel?

After re-reading your post on an actual computer personally despite the attractive price I don't think I would buy pretty much ANY component that I won't be happy with and/or doesn't fit my intended use. Although it looks like a fantastic deal price wise, if it's not straight down the runway of what you want then don't bother. That's my 2 cents. There are enough manufacturers making enough stuff to be able to get what you really want.

[JGifford]

OK. So, the truth is, I want a rifle that will do sub MOA, and I don't mind spending the money. The problem is, I won't. I don't think I will ever hand load, and most likely the MAX I will ever need my rifle to do is 10" at 400 yards or so. I would be tickled to death with that actually. Most likely, it will see lots of 55 grain Independence, and maybe from time to time I'll buy a box or two of match ammo and let my wife try her hand at making a group, since she likes the slow stuff more than me.

So my dilemma is this....

http://www.shop.masdefense.com/18-22...8STFBBL-SS.htm



The MAS Defense barrels I have owned in the past were awesome. And although this isn't rifle length, I am thinking I could live with an 18" mid length.

Does anyone think that with my intended use, I REALLY should spend the extra $100 on another "name brand" match barrel?

I've shot plenty of 1/2 MOA groups at 400 yards off a bench with Q3131 Winchester M193. Now granted, that's taking 3 out of those 10 shots and calling them fliers, because they were literally FEET from the 2" group of the other 7. That said, I routinely pegged bowling pins at that range. I think you can easily pull 1-2 MOA out of most any quality AR with a round off the shelf that it likes. I've even shot M855 that would do sub 2 MOA at 200 yards (10 shot groups) off a bench.

Don't sell it/you short.

Get a quality barrel for the gas-port and chamber. Not the super awesome bore dimensions. FN, Daniel Defense, etc. Plenty of others qualify. So on and so forth.

[JHoward]

So I guess the biggest question is, can you really write MAS Defense off as sub par strictly due to price?

I like that Rainier's barrels last longer, and that may be the driving factor in my decision.

[rob_s]

Something else to consider, is your ammo, optic, trigger, and shooter going to be capable of living up to the potential of a stainless barrel (assuming MAS is good to go, I have no idea and no desire to find out)?

At the same time, the heart wants what the heart wants. If you think you want a stainless barrel, and having a stainless barrel that looks cool gets you motivated to go to the range, I say go get yourself that stainless barrel.

FWIW, the accuracy hierarchy goes like this

1) SHOOTER
2) SHOOTER
3) SHOOTER
4) Ammo
5) Optic
6) Trigger
7) Barrel

I could argue 4 and 5 swapping places in the list, but I've seen some people do some amazing things with iron sights.

[GOST]

Something else to consider, is your ammo, optic, trigger, and shooter going to be capable of living up to the potential of a stainless barrel (assuming MAS is good to go, I have no idea and no desire to find out)?

At the same time, the heart wants what the heart wants. If you think you want a stainless barrel, and having a stainless barrel that looks cool gets you motivated to go to the range, I say go get yourself that stainless barrel.

FWIW, the accuracy hierarchy goes like this

1) SHOOTER
2) SHOOTER
3) SHOOTER
4) Ammo
5) Optic
6) Trigger
7) Barrel

I could argue 4 and 5 swapping places in the list, but I've seen some people do some amazing things with iron sights.

I agree with Rob. You see a lot of guys assemble a $2500 precision rifle, then fit it with a $150 scope and feed it bulk ammo. I got into an argument once over the buffer weight of a rifle. The rifle cost over $3000 not including optics. I was asked what buffer weight I'd recommend. When I responded they told me that my recommendation wouldn't cycle Tula properly.

[JHoward]

After reading the responses, I feel like everyone believes that I'm going to buy a stainless barrel and shoot 1 moa groups. The truth is, I will be looking to hit an 18" gong at 400 yards, and that will be plenty for me. I would like to be able to pull off a 10" group at 400 with factory match ammo. This rifle will probably get a 1-6 Vortex scope and a Hyperfire or ACT trigger.

I am not nearly looking for an accuracy rig, which is what I was getting at in the beginning. Do I need a stainless barrel to do that? Would it help?

[SINNER]

No need for anything more than a decent 16" barrel to achieve what you are looking for. I can hit a 12" gong off a bag at 500 yards with a 6920 wearing a 4x ACOG 80% of the time. With a 18" PRI barrel and a 6.5-20x50 MK4 Leupold breaking clays on a 300 yd. berm is easy. The accuracy you seek is really what I would consider battle rifle accuracy. 2 MOA accuracy.

[rob_s]

After reading the responses, I feel like everyone believes that I'm going to buy a stainless barrel and shoot 1 moa groups. The truth is, I will be looking to hit an 18" gong at 400 yards, and that will be plenty for me. I would like to be able to pull off a 10" group at 400 with factory match ammo. This rifle will probably get a 1-6 Vortex scope and a Hyperfire or ACT trigger.

I am not nearly looking for an accuracy rig, which is what I was getting at in the beginning. Do I need a stainless barrel to do that? Would it help?

I think the issue is that most people don't understand the stainless barrel choice if the intent isn't to chase tiny groups. Many of us have seen ~1 MOA groups with chromoloy barrels and good ammo.

[Ride4frnt]

Yep, they're right. On my "precision" gun I'm running a 18" BHW barrel, geissele ssa-e trigger, and a Pimary arms 1-6x ACSS scope. If I do my part, with good ammo I'm sure I can shoot sub MOA at 100 yards as that's the longest range I've got near me. I've only shot this rifle about 20 rounds for function test and rough zero, that was with 55gr hornady amax factory loads. Best group at 100 fit under a quarter with this ammo.

I will tell you, if I didn't have that trigger, it wouldn't have happened the way it did.