Rolling my own?

[alamo5000]

I bought several boxes of 69 grain match ammo to test. More specifically I bought 69 grain Federal Gold Medal Match and I bought some Winchester 69 grain Match. I did a side by side comparison between the two and I got better results from the Winchester. Both rounds use 69gr SMK as projectiles.

On the box the Winchester is advertised as 3060 fps and the Federal is advertised as 2950 fps. I know Winchester used 24" barrels in their tests and I am pretty sure Federal did as well.

But for me out of my rifle I did a chronograph test with a cheap chrono, but it gave me approximate results. I was shooting from about 3 feet back so it wasn't a true 'muzzle' velocity but it told me what I needed to know.

The Winchester was clocking in at between 2610 and 2615 fps in my rifle. However I did notice that an occasional round was 'hot'.

Federal on the other hand clocked in about 2565 fps and the variation was no more than 10 fps. To me this indicated that Federal actually had better quality control. Their rounds were spot on just like clockwork. Winchester on the other hand had a wider range. Most of them were 'on' but I found one or two would be 20+ fps different to the hot side. Most however were between 2610 to 2615.

Don't get me wrong, both shot fine but I was able to get better groups with the increased velocity. My best performance was about 1/2" group at 100 yards, not that it matters. My theory is that if I had an 18" barrel then the Federal would be delivering the goods. In fact I am quite confident in this assumption. Those extra two inches would put the velocity right in that sweet spot.

I have always had the intention to create a pet load so when I get the itch to shoot for accuracy I can do it. Don't get me wrong, I will probably be shooting a lot of cheap ammo as well. I can hit the steel target just fine with a box of Wal Mart ammo. It's two entirely different things.

For my cheap ammo I will probably go to a friend's place who has a full on Dillion set up where I can churn out ammo by the bucket load and for my accuracy loads I can do those at home.

I found some 69 grain SMK projectiles that I got to the door for 22 cents a round which was cheaper than anywhere else so those are on the way. I have a ton of brass so all that's left really is powder and primers.

Considering that I am going to start with my accuracy load I am wondering what kind of power would deliver the target velocity of 2610 fps with a 69 gr SMK out of a 16.5" 1/8 twist barrel. Being consistent is going to be the main game. Any recommendations on powder?

side note: if I reload my 'accuracy load' the price is hard to beat. Considering that I have a lot of brass I can reload good-enough-for-me match grade ammo for under 40 cents per round-- the estimated cost is about 37 cents. If I buy the ammo locally it's $1.25 a round.

It just makes sense. Not only will I have control and get a better product for my gun but I save a ton of money.

For plinker ammo though the cost savings is much less pronounced. If I do it myself I save about 5 cents per round or about $50 a thousand.

[Ride4frnt]

Look in the reloading section here, there's an accuracy load thread. I think most are using varget, ramshot TAC, or h322.

[alamo5000]

Look in the reloading section here, there's an accuracy load thread. I think most are using varget, ramshot TAC, or h322.

I will search around and see what I can find. I have only read a couple here. I have looked at the reload data for a bunch of powders and most of the stuff I have found doesn't specify barrel length when figuring velocity and pressure. I think most of the advertised velocities are 24" barrel tests so I kind of have to guess at what kind of velocities I will end up with. Ideally I would find a willing soul who can test 69gr rounds out of a 16" barrel before hand so I can get an idea of what I am going to need to do to get from point A to point B. Buying a pound of powder to just 'try' is pretty steep. There are several powders that would probably get me there but I am hoping there are some people around who know more than me and can steer me.

Considering the shorter barrel would a slightly faster powder be better? Or should I just consider the 24" barrel tests and try to estimate a 'discount' for velocity loss?

Since I have a very specific need hopefully someone can help me out with some wisdom.

[alamo5000]

Also what KIND of powders are better for accuracy loads? Stick, ball, flake? Which ones are easier to deal with?

I have loaded a ton of pistol rounds but not so much rifle ammo.

[alamo5000]

As of right now I have two possible candidates.

One is Hogdon H4895 which lists a load at 3069 fps using a 69gr projectile from a 24" barrel. If I discount for barrel length I might be able to get to the target velocity, but I am not sure if a faster burning powder would be better. In my mind it would be but I can't say for sure.

The other candidate is Hogdon H322. It shows a max load going out to 2932 fps with a 24" barrel and 69 gr projectile. HOWEVER this powder is #74 on the burn rate chart whereas H4895 is #87 on the list. H322 is a faster burning powder which I am thinking may be better for a shorter barrel.

Buried in the archives of the internet one guy on another forum said he was able to get an average of 2697 fps out of a 16" barrel using the H322. It's possible I imagine. If that's true then in my work up I would have a full 80 fps of leeway to work with.

[Former11B]

Varget and Reloder 15 are very similar powders and two of the best powders around. RE15 is what I shot that 69gr SMK five round cloverleaf with at 100yds in your other thread.

Also, just because a longer barrel produces greater velocity doesn't mean it will produce greater accuracy. This is where I see some reloaders get mixed up. They spend a lot of time trying to find their max charge versus their most ACCURATE one and end up just being able to miss further targets at a higher speed

This may interest you

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-and-accuracy/

[SINNER]

I agree on the Varget or the RE-15. Primers make a difference too. CCI have always produced the most consistent numbers.

[Ride4frnt]

Removed due to my stupid ass posting in the wrong thread.

[Jerry R]

most of the stuff I have found doesn't specify barrel length when figuring velocity and pressure.

Don't know much about supplying wisdom but I posted a thread on velocity versus barrel length. Most of the stuff is 6.8 but there is 5.56 info at the bottom of the spreadsheet. Not your bullet or powder choices stated above, but you could extrapolate the gain/loss from the figures. Maybe it will help.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...gth&highlight=

[alamo5000]

Also, just because a longer barrel produces greater velocity doesn't mean it will produce greater accuracy. This is where I see some reloaders get mixed up. They spend a lot of time trying to find their max charge versus their most ACCURATE one and end up just being able to miss further targets at a higher speed

Oh I get that. I am not trying to make that case at all. I am saying that I tried a couple of kinds of ammo out of my rifle, which has a fixed barrel length (16.5") and based on that test I got better results at that velocity vs a slower velocity. It's not at all about maxing out my load. I might get to testing and find that optimal combo is less. I more or less have a baseline to work off of and that's it.

I called around and a place in town sells powders ranging in price from $25-$35 or so (per pound) so what I might do is narrow the choices to the top three and buy those and then try to work something up. That said I want to have that velocity to be within reach without having to resort to max loads or whatever.

If I get three powders and find that 'one' that I am really after... I can still use the other two. I would just get some other projectiles and make plinker loads. If I spend $100 on three different powders really there is nothing lost. I just want to get something that can on paper give me 2650 or so if I max it out but then I can work up to what is actually what I want. It might be 2590 fps or it might be 2600 or 2610 but it's going to be somewhere in that range (I think).

[Former11B]

And at <300yds, don't discount 52gr BTHPs...either Hornady, Nosler, or SMKs. They're cheaper than 69-77gr, and if you're just punching paper at 0-200yds, it may be worth it.

22.5gr Reloder10x
2.25"OAL

-or-

(Work up this load but A LOT of people use it)
27gr RE15
2.25"OAL

Both of those with 52gr pills with that much powder are going to be over 2900fps in a 16". Might be better than 69gr @2500fps

[alamo5000]

And at <300yds, don't discount 52gr BTHPs...either Hornady, Nosler, or SMKs. They're cheaper than 69-77gr, and if you're just punching paper at 0-200yds, it may be worth it.

22.5gr Reloder10x
2.25"OAL

-or-

(Work up this load but A LOT of people use it)
27gr RE15
2.25"OAL

Both of those with 52gr pills with that much powder are going to be over 2900fps in a 16". Might be better than 69gr @2500fps

I already ordered a box of 69 gr because they have been proven to work. That said I would like to experiment with different loads with different projectiles to see what I can get.

[alamo5000]

Well I had an interesting experience today. I ordered some 69gr SMK bullets from a company but for some reason they didn't charge my credit card. I was kind of wondering what the problem was so I found a phone number and got an older man on the other end of the line. He was SUPER nice and we chatted a bit. I found out that I mistyped one number on my CC when I placed my order. After all that got sorted out we talked a little bit about what I was doing. In the end he gave me a telephone number to call and said 'I recommend calling and asking there'...

I figured what the hell, why not. I gave it a ring and got to the person... and holy smokes. He was another really super nice older man who has been reloading for 50 years. The number I called was directly to Sierra Bullets. The guy I had on the phone told me that he shot for 9 hours a day 6 days a week for 8 months straight collecting data. He literally wrote all the data manuals that Sierra uses. He was one of their chief technicians and he's worked at Sierra for 30 something years.

Holy crap batman. Did I ever have the right guy on the line! DAAAAMN.

Anyway we chatted and BS'ed a little bit and we really hit it off. I could tell he was a very kind person. Before it was all over we were cracking jokes but I also got to ask him about loads, load data, and what he recommended. I gave him the information about my rifle and he gave me 3 pretty specific loads using 3 specific powders while using 69gr SMK bullets. Then he gave me his information and told me that if I have any further questions to call him back any time.

Wow. Why do I get so lucky?

His specific recommendations of 'where I should start' were given in a 'first choice, second choice, and third choice' format...

1st choice: 25 to 25.5 grains of Varget
2nd choice: 24.5 grains of IMR4895
3rd choice: 24.4 grains of Accurate 2520

I didn't ask him for three choices. He just shuffled through what sounded like a stack of notes or whatever and that's what he gave me.

Well it certainly looks like that debate is ended

My bullets are on the way and now I need to locate some primers and some Varget.

[Former11B]

I know I said it before but if you can't get Varget, RE15 is right next to it on the burn rate chart and very similar...almost to the point it could be a direct substitute, but not quite. I use 24.1gr of RE15 but that doesn't mean there isn't another node at a higher charge weight

4895 was a Camp Perry staple....known as The Camp Perry Powder and has put some hundreds of tons of .308 lead downrange in very tight groups. Accurate 2495 is a direct substitute for 4895.

I have no experience with 2520

[alamo5000]

I was just blown away by the kindness people in the shooting community showed me today. Neither one of those old guys had to talk to me. But they did. Ammo aside that just made my day.

There is a place in town that sells all sorts of gun stuff so I called them and they didn't have any Varget in stock but I gave them my number and they told me they would call when it came in. I am not opposed to trying different powders. Not at all. I will most likely buy in one pound increments and try a few things until I get what the gun likes. All I know is the list got a whole lot shorter by asking around here and by talking to the guy at Sierra.

Now I just need to figure a way to measure powder a little more efficiently. I'm thinking I need a good accurate digital scale.

I also need primers but I think I can round some of those up.