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  1. #16
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    As this will be my first SHOT Show, I hope I don't walk around leaving little traces of my unborn children everywhere..

    CXS

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Custom-X_Sponjah View Post
    As this will be my first SHOT Show, I hope I don't walk around leaving little traces of my unborn children everywhere..

    CXS


    You will have a great time, and will probably end up tired at the end of the day. Just remember, there are lots of special parties that happen down there, so keep an eye out and ear open. I think more business is done after hours than is done on the SHOT show floor.

  3. #18
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    Here are my HOPES:

    FN SCAR L&H - announce both are available in good quantities to keep the price below $2000.

    KAC - announce their PDW is available to civilians in a factory-SBR model and non-SBR model. Again in good quantities. They are releasing their SR series of 5.56 guns with their folding FSB, dimpled barrel, and URX with their ambi lower - with an option for a standard lower.

    Hornady - announce they have ammo for the KAC PDW at $200/1000 and in good quantities. Also they are lowering the price of their .223 practice ammo and 75 gr 5.56 TAP.

    MagPul - announce they have been secretly building huge stockpiles of ALL their products and are currently shipping to distributors. Plus they have tripled their output of PMAGs, UBRs, ACSs, the MOE line, etc.

    MagPul/Bushmaster - announce they have large amounts of ACRs shipping immediately with a price of less than $1500.

    Federal/Speer/Remington/Winchester - announce they've found a way to reduce the price of quality 5.56 ammo down to $250/1000 and that they've tripled their out put. Same with Black Hills and they are taking orders for Mk262 ammo at $350/1000.

    What I THINK will happen:
    FN SCAR-Ls available Q1 or Q2 of 2009. MSRP of $2700 and selling at $3500+. Q4 09 or Q1 10 availability of SCAR-Hs, MSRP of $3000 and selling at $4250+

    Spooky

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spooky130 View Post
    Here are my HOPES:

    FN SCAR L&H - announce both are available in good quantities to keep the price below $2000.

    KAC - announce their PDW is available to civilians in a factory-SBR model and non-SBR model. Again in good quantities. They are releasing their SR series of 5.56 guns with their folding FSB, dimpled barrel, and URX with their ambi lower - with an option for a standard lower.

    Hornady - announce they have ammo for the KAC PDW at $200/1000 and in good quantities. Also they are lowering the price of their .223 practice ammo and 75 gr 5.56 TAP.

    MagPul - announce they have been secretly building huge stockpiles of ALL their products and are currently shipping to distributors. Plus they have tripled their output of PMAGs, UBRs, ACSs, the MOE line, etc.

    MagPul/Bushmaster - announce they have large amounts of ACRs shipping immediately with a price of less than $1500.

    Federal/Speer/Remington/Winchester - announce they've found a way to reduce the price of quality 5.56 ammo down to $250/1000 and that they've tripled their out put. Same with Black Hills and they are taking orders for Mk262 ammo at $350/1000.

    What I THINK will happen:
    FN SCAR-Ls available Q1 or Q2 of 2009. MSRP of $2700 and selling at $3500+. Q4 09 or Q1 10 availability of SCAR-Hs, MSRP of $3000 and selling at $4250+

    Spooky
    Step away from the pipe!

  5. #20
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    I've heard a few more murmurings about rails, and I'm starting to wonder if we won't see more than a few new types of rails introduced. Rails have gotten to a point where they are almost overlooked, so it will be interesting to see if its larger players entering the rail market with new offerings, or unknown/ smaller companies that are breaking out with (hopefully) new designs. Daniel Defense stole the rail hype for the past year or so with their OMEGA rail, so I'm sure there are people out there looking to one up them.


    More comments heard regarding the upcoming CAA and Tango Down magazines, with big hopes for one, and not as much excitement for the other from most people. I've got to wonder at what point the military will establish a testing protocol for polymer mags, or if they ever will...


    A couple rumors have been heard about VFGs from a few companies, but nothing concrete. There has been talk about offshoots from traditional VFGs, so we will have to see if there is anything outside the box this year in the VFG flavor.


    Lots of comments regarding HK making their big anouncement about the 416, and similar talk about FN releasing the SCAR (which they are already late on). HK may have another announcement as well, but thats been lowkey.

  6. #21
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    I've heard Glock will introduce the Glock 20SF at SHOT and possibly the 29SF.
    VA Arms Co FFL/SOT armorer
    certified HK-sidearms/S&W M&P/BUSHMASTER/GLOCK/SIG-Sauer LE/FNH-SCAR armorer
    competitive shooter sponsored by VA ArmsCo, W.A.R. rifles, BravoCoUSA, BCM, Bobro Engineering, Magpul, Magpul Dynamics, Hatfields Gunsmithing and Greeley Custom

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
    I've heard Glock will introduce the Glock 20SF at SHOT and possibly the 29SF.
    I heard that these models have been delayed due to the pending release of the Glock 5.56 carbine.



  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
    I've heard Glock will introduce the Glock 20SF at SHOT and possibly the 29SF.
    At one of the last Glock armorer courses I went to, the lead instructor commented that he felt that Glock would switch over with all of their wide body pistols. The frames are the same, and they loose money by only keeping the features on one caliber.



    I got a phone call today that mentioned some of the same info as email. The gist of which was a company rebranding suppressors and releasing them through another manufacturer. I know thats not all that exciting, but I've heard it from a few different people, so I figured I would mention it. I can see the interest from the parent company point of view. If this is legit, it simply means more money for them.


    More talk today of additional weapon calibers being added. I'm not sure if this means a new caliber being launched at SHOT, or if this is more along the lines of weapons being rechambered for existing calibers. The AR15 already seems to have a pretty wide base of existing calibers to choose from, but there are only a few that have really caught on with the commercial ammunition market.

    More rail talk today, possibly with some interesting twists, but nothing concrete and not solid enough to say much more.

    Interesting comments have been made regarding electronics this year. I know that SHOT isn't geared exactly for the military market, but we may see smaller variants of existing items, possibly extending into the optic world as well. The Aimpoint T-1 has done very well, so its always possible that we will see similar offerings from other companies.

    New scopes, but I'll admit I'm not up on scopes enough to remember most of the info.

    More talk about new variants on pistols. Same stuff, same names, same stories, different versions of the same pistols.....? or at least thats how I've heard it, which makes no sense to me.
    Last edited by Stickman; 2 January 2009 at 22:51.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    A couple rumors have been heard about VFGs from a few companies, but nothing concrete. There has been talk about offshoots from traditional VFGs, so we will have to see if there is anything outside the box this year in the VFG flavor.
    I'm not in the habit of cross-pollinating, but this was a topic of interest recently on M4CN, in that I was also wondering what "the way ahead" might look like where VFGs are concerned.

    My musings on this topic from earlier last month ...

    I was thinking about VFGs earlier today and specifically wondering why everything on the market right now seems to essentially just be a variation on a theme. We've progressed to the short versions as we've learned to migrate beyond the "chicken choker" grip of the early days, but that is effectively where the evolution seems to have stopped.

    I'm willing to concede that the reasoning behind this is simply that (a) there is no need to improve upon what works, or (b) that the more we discover about VFGs in actual practice, the less we even find ourselves using them. Still, as a forward hand stop, or as a reference point along the rail, it would seem that a VFG does still serve a purpose for the majority of shooters with railed carbines.

    I've been paying attention to hand positioning, in particular, and it has occurred to me that "less might be more" where the typical VFG is concerned. Yes, we do want something there to gain purchase on, but we don't necessarily need a full post in most cases. Why, then, is that all that we see on the market?

    What follows is nothing more than a concept -- and a very theoretical one at that. I'm not a designer, I'm not in the parts business, I haven't sent out any resumes, and I'm not looking to promote or market anything. What I'm proposing here doesn't even exist, and likely never will. I'm just a shooter trying to envision what (if anything) might logically come next in the evolution of the VFG.

    To that end, I've mocked-up two views of a wedge-type VFG concept (below) that would seem to introduce some new possibilities while still maintaining a more or less standard support hand position on a railed carbine. There are, of course, two problems with this: (1) I'm only one shooter with a very abstract idea, and (2) the idea itself might not even have that much merit to begin with.

    What I'm soliciting here is an opinion, or a dialogue in support of an opinion, about the possibilities that might exist with a concept of this nature. What would (or would not) work about it? Why might it present new advantages (or disadvantages)? How would it be a step forward (or backward)? Again, we aren't talking about sharpshooting an existing product; merely attempting to refine one idea among many.


    Based upon a more or less standard hand position along the rail, I envisioned Concept 1 as the more viable of the two, as it would provide a natural wedge to wrap the middle, ring and pinky fingers around. Reversing the wedge obviously provides a very different profile, and even if the virtue of such a component would be limited to use as a forward rest for the front of the weapon against cover, it seems like there might be a use for something along these lines.
    In the follow-on discussion at M4CN, KevinB indicated that at least one manufacturer has a nearly identical concept in T&E right now, so it will surely be interesting to see if that -- or another "alternate" VFG -- breaks cover at SHOT.

    Any ideas as to what else might potentially be in the offing VFG-wise, Stick?

    Chief

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post

    Any ideas as to what else might potentially be in the offing VFG-wise, Stick?

    Chief

    VFG vs other style foregrips? I think we may be looking at items similar to what you posted, but using different shaped pieces to work as blocks as well.

    At a certain point, items are going to need to fulfill more than one use, and the only people who seem to have done this well did it by putting the VFG and bipod together. While it might not be loved by everyone, it works, and most products no matter how good they are have detractors.

  11. #26
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    I am still patiently waiting for Magpul to release the B.A.D. already!
    SHOT would be a great place to do this (hint, hint). C'mon guys! I bought your PMags, I convinced the PD to get all the guys on the SWAT team PMAgs, I bought your MIAD grip. How about throwing me a bone.
    PLEASE!
    Dave.

  12. #27
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    More pistol rumors continue to surface..... some interesting, some less so. If what I'm hearing is true, there may be some people less than impressed with some developments from a certain company.

  13. #28
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    At a certain point, items are going to need to fulfill more than one use, and the only people who seem to have done this well did it by putting the VFG and bipod together. While it might not be loved by everyone, it works, and most products no matter how good they are have detractors.
    I would agree that the combination VFG/bipod concept has considerable merit, even if I would prefer a next-generation solution that was/is a bit more elegant than what we've seen on that front to date.

    If what I'm hearing is true, there may be some people less than impressed with some developments from a certain company.
    I realize this is largely a wait-and-see situation, but an admittedly uneducated guess might lead one to speculate that a "certain company" may not be on schedule for an early 2009 commericial release of a rifle not so very much unlike the ACR, for example.

    Looking forward to the early reports from the show.

    Chief

  14. #29
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    AC,

    Its a different company than Bushmaster. The ACR was reconceptualized to be a military service weapon. With the parent company Cerberus still being the one who is overseeing everything (this does not exclude Magpul from anything). If we look at who Cerberus owns, they could transfer the project to another facility if needed with a simple phone call. I'm not saying that I think its going to happen, but it points out that they have a large pool of resources, and the capabilities to produce a weapon as needed.

    I do think we need to look at the Masada/ ACR as a weapon which has a new purpose, and that purpose will benefit us all in the end. There is no doubt that I would like to have one now, as would a lot of other people, however, after everything is all said and done I feel it will be worth the wait. Even if I didn't, it wouldn't change anything.

  15. #30
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    Stick,

    You're entirely right, of course. I'm sure that Cerberus could hand the shooting public a Remington ACR in relatively short order, if that were their primary aim. Clearly, they've set their sights on a higher -- and more sustainable -- market base.

    So, that leaves the armchair speculator pondering civil 416s that never seem like they are coming, SCARs that won't be priced anywhere near what the typical everyman can afford, or perhaps some major delay in the Sabre AUG.

    I'm overreaching wildly, of course, but I'm so far removed from the American shooting scene right now that all I can really do is wonder -- and wait. :)

    AC

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