War Sport Costa Ludus Edition AR-15

[JGifford]

7 lbs. for a 14.5" barreled rifle may have been standard several years ago. A BCM Recce 14.5" KMR ELW MK2 weighs in at 5.7 lbs, that's the new standard. To be fair, the KMR is a pretty flimsy rail and kindof falls under the category of "mission specific" rather than "Standard". I view it the same way I do the SIG pistol brace. Serviceable, but not for me.

I don't feel that people are surprised by the price of this new rifle but rather disappointed. KAC SR-15 E3 MOD 2 have a lot more features than this new rifle and have been going for roughly $2150, $500 cheaper than this Costa.

The reason that I compared War Sport's Costa rifle to the BCM and KAC is that these are the 2 rifles that he is often photographed with in his classes. BCM sponsor more guys than about anybody and are able to keep prices considerably less. They also put Haley's logo on the Jack. But the Jack comes with sights, a $200 gift certificate for training and is $555 cheaper.

I'm sure the guys at War Sport make a great product but this rifle will be compared to the BCM Recce 14.5" KMR ELW MK2. The BCM is 1.3 lbs lighter and roughly $1150 less, it has become the new standard.

War Sport is an example of a small company spending a lot of money on machines, smaller lots of materials, etc. They cannot play "economy of scale", especially since BCM buys all their stuff from others, nearly as well as BCM. It's a different operation entirely. However...7# is ridiculously heavy, any way you want to slice it.

[GOST]

War Sport is an example of a small company spending a lot of money on machines, smaller lots of materials, etc. They cannot play "economy of scale", especially since BCM buys all their stuff from others, nearly as well as BCM. It's a different operation entirely. However...7# is ridiculously heavy, any way you want to slice it.

Should price of a product be dictated by the size of a company, or by the product they've generated? Whether the size of the company is small or large it appears that both BCM and War Sport are in the AR-15 market. BCM has grown into the size company they are by offering good products at good prices with outstanding customer service. There are other small companies generating good rifles at far more competitive prices. I'm sure War Sport makes a great product but it appears they want to be the next Larue Tactical.

What rail system do you consider a standard and not mission specific in todays market?

[schambers]

The size of a company shouldn't exclusivly dictate price but it definately plays a factor.

I think JGifford hit it on the head with his point about economy of scale. BCM outsources the production of a lot of their parts (as do most companies that sell complete rifles) and Warsports does the opposite and tries to make as many parts as possible in-house, and that can become an expensive proposition.

My M4A1 weighs a little over 7lbs, before attaching all the other parts and accessories. There is a noticeabe difference in the way a weighted down M4 feels compared to a lightweight AR build, but I don't considder 7lbs to be ridiculously... or maybe I've just become used to lugging around a +8lb rifle.



ps. For the record I think that BCM sells great stuff, and I reccomend them to most people I know.

pps. Does anybody think its weird that they came out with an in-line scout mount shortly after they started carrying Arisaka mounts? Does Arisaka make the BCM branded mounts?

[Slippers]

pps. Does anybody think its weird that they came out with an in-line scout mount very shortly after they started carrting Arisaka mounts? Does Arisaka make the BCM branded mounts?

BCM doesn't make an inline scout mount, as far as I know. They have their offset version, which attaches at 3/9 o'clock, rather than the 1:30 or 10:30 positions. We don't make anything for BCM, but they carry our products because Paul and Eric are super cool, and very supportive of KeyMod. :)

[JGifford]

Should price of a product be dictated by the size of a company, or by the product they've generated? Whether the size of the company is small or large it appears that both BCM and War Sport are in the AR-15 market. BCM has grown into the size company they are by offering good products at good prices with outstanding customer service. There are other small companies generating good rifles at far more competitive prices. I'm sure War Sport makes a great product but it appears they want to be the next Larue Tactical.

What rail system do you consider a standard and not mission specific in todays market?

The KMR is just flimsy. I consider it the same as those uppers and lowers with a bunch of holes drilled in them to save weight.

As to markets of scale...well that's just a fact of economics. If Warsport is going to stay afloat financially, they need to charge more for the same part as compared to BCM. Why? BCM doesn't make anything---Warsport does. This means machinework, overhead, etc. BCM buys in bulk---Warsport maybe not so much (as relates to production volume). I'm not trying to sell anyone on the thought that a forward assist from Warsport is better than the one BCM uses, or whatever, but it's simple economics of scale. It's why Wal-Mart killed the hardware store, basically.

Will Warsport survive? I don't know. Time will tell. They do have a following, though. Time will tell.

[JGifford]

BCM doesn't make an inline scout mount, as far as I know. They have their offset version, which attaches at 3/9 o'clock, rather than the 1:30 or 10:30 positions. We don't make anything for BCM, but they carry our products because Paul and Eric are super cool, and very supportive of KeyMod. :)

On a total side note...or maybe not...I enjoy your interaction on various forums.

Does anyone know if Warsport maintains a footprint anywhere?

[BC98]

BCM doesn't make anything---Warsport does. This means machinework, overhead, etc. BCM buys in bulk---Warsport maybe not so much (as relates to production volume).

One thing to consider is that when you outsource a part, you are still paying for machinework, overhead, etc. but your are also paying the additional margins that a vendor must have so that THEY can stay in business and make money. It's just rolled into one price and you don't typically have that broken down as the buyer.

Outsourcing parts make sense (especially from a machining and/or heat treatment standpoint) if you don't have the technical capability and equipment or don't want/need to invest in the time and funds to obtain them to meet your business model.

[Slippers]

One thing to consider is that when you outsource a part, you are still paying for machinework, overhead, etc. but your are also paying the additional margins that a vendor must have so that THEY can stay in business and make money. It's just rolled into one price and you don't typically have that broken down as the buyer.

Outsourcing parts make sense (especially from a machining and/or heat treatment standpoint) if you don't have the technical capability and equipment or don't want/need to invest in the time and funds to obtain them to meet your business model.

This is exactly what many companies struggle with. Machines are a big investment, plus you need all the tooling and employees to run them. Whenever machines aren't running, you're losing money due to the overhead of wages, facility rent, and so forth. Sometimes outsourcing is the way to go. Internally we have the same dilemma right now. We're pressed to capacity on our current machines, but buying another CNC mill or lathe may not be the right choice.

BCM does very high volume. One look at my RSR Group account will show thousands of a specific BCM part in stock. I think they're on an entirely different numbers level than Warsport. This isn't a poke at Warsport, either. It just shows that they have completely different approaches to how they make and sell firearms.

[UWone77]

On a total side note...or maybe not...I enjoy your interaction on various forums.

Does anyone know if Warsport maintains a footprint anywhere?

Adam from Warsport has posted here a few times. His screen name is: Adam_WarSport

[JGifford]

Adam from Warsport has posted here a few times. His screen name is: Adam_WarSport

It would be great if he saw and popped into this thread mayhap.