Forward Controls Design ABC/R

[fledge]

On "crosshatch": I actually think 20lpi checkering, like on a 1911 front strap, would not only be cosmetically subtle but give all the multi-directional texture you'd want.


Off topic: I talked to BAD too about that comparability issue with their selectors and I just got "they are made to milspec tolerances." So either their previous version wasn't or someone fell asleep at the machine. If Forward Controls had a short throw selector, I'd be all over it.

[Duffy]

Sorry to let you guys down, we will not be designing or making any selectors for the AR. We do have levers designed and redesigned for the SCAR, but not for the AR, unless you happen to have the Noveske selector center that uses SCAR selector levers. My name is on the selector patent (issued) and BAD-EPS patent (pending), and I'm still receiving royalties on them, so it's not in my best interest to compete with my old company, and myself to some extent.

Even if the settlement on which we all agreed didn't prohibit me from doing so, I still think the selector market is already crowded with very good designs, why bring another to the market that only has cosmetic and incremental differences? I'd have to compete with established brands and newer models, dilute the market with yet another model, and it'd just look bad for me and Forward Controls to do it.

RE: cross hatch like the 1911 front strap, I will look into it. ABC/R's larger paddles are excellent canvas on which to work, there's so much room. I'd have tons of fun naming it, it could have subtle or overt WEVO tribute if it gets made

[UWone77]

Sorry to let you guys down, we will not be designing or making any selectors for the AR. We do have levers designed and redesigned for the SCAR, but not for the AR, unless you happen to have the Noveske selector center that uses SCAR selector levers. My name is on the selector patent (issued) and BAD-EPS patent (pending), and I'm still receiving royalties on them, so it's not in my best interest to compete with my old company, and myself to some extent.

Even if the settlement on which we all agreed didn't prohibit me from doing so, I still think the selector market is already crowded with very good designs, why bring to another to the market that only has cosmetic and incremental differences? I'd have to compete with established brands and newer models, dilute the market with yet another model, and it'd just look bad for me and Forward Controls to do it.

RE: cross hatch like the 1911 front strap, I will look into it. ABC/R's larger paddles are excellent canvas on which to work, there's so much room. I'd have tons of fun naming it, it could have subtle or overt WEVO tribute if it gets made

Probably a good idea Roger. Like you said, the selector market is saturated, and I think personally the original BAD-ASS design has been surpassed by others.

[Duffy]

Richard, the BAD-ASS is the old guard that started it all. Other designs may use other means of lever attachment and different levers in attempts to surpass it, and some may have done so incrementally, there is nothing wrong with way the BAD-ASS and BAD-CASS levers look, work, and attach to the center, thus had I been able to design and make my own, I still wouldn't bring another to market with marginal and probably negligible improvements.

Troy and AXTS both use spring loaded detent to secure the lever, and both wobble. I do like the AXTS Talon levers though.

Our SCAR lever incorporate some changes to the shape of the lever, but they're still incremental. For the SCAR, they're better than anything in existence. The SCAR market is small enough these levers may be postponed again, but we are bringing out the SCAR charging handles that make much more impact to the way SCAR operates.

[UWone77]

My biggest issue with the BAD-ASS is, in my experience the screws back out over time, even with loctite. In fact I've had the lever come off completely during shooting sessions. The BAD-CASS is an improvement, but IMHO the AXTS Talon is a far superior design with the detents. I've slowly migrated to the Talon on newer builds. The downside is the Talon is slightly more expensive, but does offer 45 or 90 degree selectors without the lower having to be cutout for 45 degree selectors.

[SINNER]

I like the AXTS and the Noveske's the best. Curious to see the SCAR levers.

[Duffy]

Richard, that's not the typical behavior of the BAD-ASS, but it can happen, there are variables at play. With the Talon though there are no screws, the levers can't be tightened and so they wobble. Not a defect just the result of the spring loaded, detent secured levers. I do like the shape of their levers.

[Stickman]

Richard, that's not the typical behavior of the BAD-ASS, but it can happen, there are variables at play. With the Talon though there are no screws, the levers can't be tightened and so they wobble. Not a defect just the result of the spring loaded, detent secured levers. I do like the shape of their levers.

Don't listen to him Roger, he's lame.

[Duffy]

Lol
I talked to Josh Underwood at AXTS about the wobble, of course he's aware of it. He had graciously sent me two to play with. My conclusion is it doesn't affect the functionality of the selector, there's a slight slack before the dovetail interface is engaged and starts to move the selector center.

Anyway, back to the ABC/R. I like the 1911 front strap 20lpi pattern, and am considering doing a small run of them. The only drawback I can think of, and this may be overthinking it, is the pattern is rather fine, and has little tolerance of mud or snow. It doesn't take much for either to get on, fill in the grooves and render the surface smooth. The same could be said of any control surface with too fine a serration/checkering pattern, maybe it's not a big deal. Standard ABC/R's serrations are widely spaced and more tolerance of it.

[din]

Roger, do you have a link to the patent for the SCAR selectors, or any illustrations? The patent link on your site is dead.

[mtdawg169]

Roger, are you all out of forged models?

[din]

Lol
I talked to Josh Underwood at AXTS about the wobble, of course he's aware of it. He had graciously sent me two to play with. My conclusion is it doesn't affect the functionality of the selector, there's a slight slack before the dovetail interface is engaged and starts to move the selector center.

Anyway, back to the ABC/R. I like the 1911 front strap 20lpi pattern, and am considering doing a small run of them. The only drawback I can think of, and this may be overthinking it, is the pattern is rather fine, and has little tolerance of mud or snow. It doesn't take much for either to get on, fill in the grooves and render the surface smooth. The same could be said of any control surface with too fine a serration/checkering pattern, maybe it's not a big deal. Standard ABC/R's serrations are widely spaced and more tolerance of it.

You could always go a little bit bigger than 20lpi. Guncrafter Industries does some checkering in 15lpi, it's very comfortable.

[Aragorn]

I like the 1911 front strap 20lpi pattern, and am considering doing a small run of them.

You're not about making my decision making process any easier, are you?

[fledge]

I'm in for the front strap pattern. 15lpi or 20lpi or whatever. Glad you're at least considering it.

[Duffy]

Unfortunately yes, I'm sure what's happening at War Sports isn't news to industry folks that saw its rapid expansion, and wholesale replacement of the original crew with folks I never met or knew. We no longer have any business dealing with them. The forging dies cost a pretty penny, I can still get them if I can find someone to machine them. Till then, we are switching to billet, which was the original design anyway.

Roger, are you all out of forged models?