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  1. #31
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    If I was closer, I'd need to take Excedrin more frequently.

    LOL... kind of...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    If I was closer, I'd need to take Excedrin more frequently.

    LOL... kind of...
    Haha.. Nothin but love... 😜

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    I see the hospital stay didn't fix your spelling at all
    Lol haha
    $300 and 10 Pastrami Sandwiches and a case of Diet Coke. ( UWone77)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dstrbdmedic167 View Post
    @Ordnance I plan to try and get some 200gr 277 bullets here in the near future and compare the two. I'll also make some loads with Jim's load and I'll also work a load using the same powder.

    The 277WLV is using a 150gr Hot-Cor over 10.2gr of 1680 @2.285.

    The 300blk is using a 190gr Nosler over 8.5gr of lil-gun @2.280. I don't know what Remington uses with their loads of course using the 220gr subsonic factory ammo. Odd loads were mine and even were factory.

    I'm no scientist and this wasn't a scientific test. Just what I had found while working up loads for the wolverine. There are so many variables that one could argue gives one an advantage over the other. I completely understand that. I do agree with you for the most part. When I load subsonic loads though I simply want whatever is quietest. I'm not hunting with a subsonic load nor do I care too. I have better bullets in the supersonic range for that and that's for both platforms. As with most things in the firearm world. It all boils down to what is your main purpose and application. One of the times YMMV comes into play.
    I understand, and I'm by no means trying to lessen your enthusiasm, but I simply want to add information that will hopefully be helpful. I have to point out, that if energy wasn't a concern, and simply attenuation, then again 22LR will always win and is more than capable of target shooting out to 200yds, so the assertion that it's not about energy isn't really correct man. I agree 110% though that every cartridge is purpose driven, but the error I find most often is when others try to come up with one round to rule them all. The .300 BO provides better terminal ballistics within a shorter platform while still maintaining the ability to cycle well. The secondary benefit is suppression. The availability of .308 cal bullets is also far greater than .277. Trying to compare the BC advantage downrange is flawed since although one may have a better flight performance, the other still offers better terminal ballistics. And, if terminal ballistics isn't a factor then there's still the fact that 6.5 and .243 offers better BC then .277 at extended ranges, and therefor will outperform the .277.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordnance View Post
    I understand, and I'm by no means trying to lessen your enthusiasm, but I simply want to add information that will hopefully be helpful. I have to point out, that if energy wasn't a concern, and simply attenuation, then again 22LR will always win and is more than capable of target shooting out to 200yds, so the assertion that it's not about energy isn't really correct man. I agree 110% though that every cartridge is purpose driven, but the error I find most often is when others try to come up with one round to rule them all. The .300 BO provides better terminal ballistics within a shorter platform while still maintaining the ability to cycle well. The secondary benefit is suppression. The availability of .308 cal bullets is also far greater than .277. Trying to compare the BC advantage downrange is flawed since although one may have a better flight performance, the other still offers better terminal ballistics. And, if terminal ballistics isn't a factor then there's still the fact that 6.5 and .243 offers better BC then .277 at extended ranges, and therefor will outperform the .277.
    Yea a 22lr will ways win that's for sure. I'll agree to disagree to some point. I can find .277 bullets just as easy and plentiful as 308 one and cheaper for that fact. We could go for days on which one is better it's all what you/me/anyone thinks is best for them. There is better bullets in other calibers for sure but they require more than just a barrel swap. That's a main reason I sold my 6.8 stuff and just kept the WLV.

    I have a 308, 223, 277, 300 and have had a 6.8. For me and my purposes the WLV is the "one for all" or at least checks the most boxes in wants/needs.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dstrbdmedic167 View Post
    Yea a 22lr will ways win that's for sure. I'll agree to disagree to some point. I can find .277 bullets just as easy and plentiful as 308 one and cheaper for that fact. We could go for days on which one is better it's all what you/me/anyone thinks is best for them. There is better bullets in other calibers for sure but they require more than just a barrel swap. That's a main reason I sold my 6.8 stuff and just kept the WLV.

    I have a 308, 223, 277, 300 and have had a 6.8. For me and my purposes the WLV is the "one for all" or at least checks the most boxes in wants/needs.
    Please read the PM I just sent you.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordnance View Post
    Would you mind posting the load data for both? I'd like to know the powder charge difference, since in all fairness I haven't worked with the Wolverine. But, I do have some points that should be considered...

    If you're running a heavier bullet which necessitates a greater powder charge, then there will almost always be an increased report. If you run a lighter bullet with less powder, it will result in a lessened report. A 40-70gr bullet weight difference is a big deal when you're talking about sustained velocity and energy in a subsonic comparison, since both rounds are coming out at relatively the same speed, unlike super sonic rounds where the lighter bullet has greater FPS and better BC which give it a ballistic advantage against wind and distance. In a nutshell what I'm trying to say is if you run a .300 in the same bullet weight as the .277, at the same speed, you'll end up with relatively the same level of suppression. The nod in that instance would go to the .277 for being able to buck the wind better, BUT... that's not really an issue IMO with most subsonics, as the distances they're typically employed at are inconsequential to wind factoring. The whole point of cartridges such as these, is the ability to run the heaviest round possible for terminal ballistics, sustained FPS over the greatest distance possible without the sonic crack, and still maintaining the ability to cycle a semi-auto. If achieving the quietest round was the only goal, then the 22LR will always win, because it has one of the smallest powder charges to bullet weight. Just some food for thought. I'm not saying the .277 is a bad cartridge, but all factors need to be considered including the negatives to attenuation which will affect intended performance.

    Pretty much nailed it. Apples to oranges test. Use the closest weight bullets and a crony to match the velocities then let's see the difference.

  8. #38
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    Is it better than 300, I don't know I don't own one so hard to say I guess. I really like it as a companion gun for my 6.8 since I do reload for it and share projectiles. I do think many of the 6.8 bullets expand better at hunting ranges than the 308 bullets because well 308 was designed for more velocity. And it acts just as the 300 does in short barrels, it holds performance very well in the shorty. There will never be one to rule them all because every sit. calls for something diff or personal preference. Subsonic was not a concern for me because I don't want to limit my range when hunting but I do enjoy shooting my sonics suppressed now. I do love my Wolverine and stand behind that it will meet most challenges you can throw at it.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaSwamper View Post
    Is it better than 300, I don't know I don't own one so hard to say I guess. I really like it as a companion gun for my 6.8 since I do reload for it and share projectiles. I do think many of the 6.8 bullets expand better at hunting ranges than the 308 bullets because well 308 was designed for more velocity. And it acts just as the 300 does in short barrels, it holds performance very well in the shorty. There will never be one to rule them all because every sit. calls for something diff or personal preference. Subsonic was not a concern for me because I don't want to limit my range when hunting but I do enjoy shooting my sonics suppressed now. I do love my Wolverine and stand behind that it will meet most challenges you can throw at it.
    Expansion has to due with how the bullet is made. Any two bullets made the same way will expand the same at the same velocities no matter the diameter, but the heavier will still transfer more energy. There are also projectiles that at higher velocities don't expand as well at others with lower velocities, which is why Berger does VLDs for hunting and target with the same BC, so as to give the shooter one for target and one that will expand better for hunting, while maintaining a very similar dope. And it's easy to compare it to the 6.8, but if I bring a 6.5 to the party then what?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    Pretty much nailed it. Apples to oranges test. Use the closest weight bullets and a crony to match the velocities then let's see the difference.
    It also needs to be the same powder, primer, and crimp. I don't know all the atmospheric details, but certain powders and primers are more temp sensative than others. If there's a high SD and ES in one but not the other, combined with a temperature variance, you'll end up with skewed results. These tests are super difficult, and I give credit to Dstrbdmedic for working with what he has available. Dstrbdmedic you might see if someone locally has a magnetospeed so you can get the ES and SD numbers during the test itself.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordnance View Post
    It also needs to be the same powder, primer, and crimp. I don't know all the atmospheric details, but certain powders and primers are more temp sensative than others. If there's a high SD and ES in one but not the other, combined with a temperature variance, you'll end up with skewed results. These tests are super difficult, and I give credit to Dstrbdmedic for working with what he has available. Dstrbdmedic you might see if someone locally has a magnetospeed so you can get the ES and SD numbers during the test itself.
    Thanks and yea I know my test are in no way scientific and should be taken with a grain of salt. Im not a large company that can control every single variable. That's why I'm gonna try to load them with similar bullets, powder and etc etc.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dstrbdmedic167 View Post
    Thanks and yea I know my test are in no way scientific and should be taken with a grain of salt. Im not a large company that can control every single variable. That's why I'm gonna try to load them with similar bullets, powder and etc etc.
    You're working with what you got and doing your best man. It's meant as positive feedback.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordnance View Post
    You're working with what you got and doing your best man. It's meant as positive feedback.
    All good! Taken as same!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    If I was closer, I'd need to take Excedrin more frequently.

    LOL... kind of...
    Lmao I live 500 miles and should own half the company with all the pills i have to take


    Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordnance View Post
    Expansion has to due with how the bullet is made. Any two bullets made the same way will expand the same at the same velocities no matter the diameter, but the heavier will still transfer more energy. There are also projectiles that at higher velocities don't expand as well at others with lower velocities, which is why Berger does VLDs for hunting and target with the same BC, so as to give the shooter one for target and one that will expand better for hunting, while maintaining a very similar dope. And it's easy to compare it to the 6.8, but if I bring a 6.5 to the party then what?
    Yes and most of the 85gr to 120gr 277 are designed for the 6.8. All of the .30 bullets were designed to be used in your high power cartridges like 30-30 308 and so on. Bringing in the 6.5 is really apples to oranges, it's way out of either of these two realms in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. Now if you want to bring the 6.5 to the party I would probly break out the 7VAR and ( Grendel Fans get you're earmuffs ) walk the dog on the 6.5. I actually have a design on file I worked up that would be able to expand the 110gr to 160gr .30 bullets and possibly even exceed the 30 RAR in performance. Will I ever cat it? Maybe, but the 7VAR will do everything it will basically for my needs.

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