L3/ Insight ATPIAL-C discussion

[gatordev]

I figured I'd start another thread here so as not to clobber the picture thread...

UWone, I'm curious if you've run that with NODs. Looking at the pictures on TNVC, the pointer seems really bright without the filter...like I'm not entirely sure if it's pointing at the target's arm or his heart kind-of-bright. I was wondering if you've seen the same in real life and it's just the camera exaggerating the image. With the neutral density filter, it looks great. Seeing the illuminator outside in the pics also looks pretty usable as long as it's not too low-light.

Also, I didn't realize Class 3a wasn't a "thing" anymore. While the NOHD on the 3r is a minimal risk, it seems like the risk is still pretty high up close at close-in distances.

For sure. Tell me if you want to do it. I can possibly set you up. But iit will be BYONV. (Bring your own night vision) lol

There is no season on pigs. Any time day or night you can kill em in Texas and with any set up you want. Suppressors, night vision, thermal, what ever you got... The real trick to the helicopter thing is finding a place big and open enough to shoot like that. Central, South, and West Texas are the places to go.

Because it requires so much space the ranchers charge a serious premium for helicopter shooting.

This just has me scratching my head. Not necessarily at you, Alamo, but at the argument. It's not hard to coral pigs from a helicopter (I may or may not have done it while bored...on more than one occasion), so it doesn't need that much land as long as you don't get right on top of them. I'm guessing the premium is for the cost-per-flight hour of a helicopter, to include the insurance insurance. Although if you're taking up a bunch of city slickers who don't ever shoot their guns, it's just easier to let them run and let Cletus empty his "clip" into the dirt.

[UWone77]

Gator,

I have not yet run this ATPIAL-C with Nods, really the only experience I have with NOD's is using a friends with his PEQ-15. I know when I picked this up from Roy at Weapon Outfitters, he mentioned that the pointer is really bright on these. I guess I won't know for sure until I get my own NV. Which of course I had the coin put aside for the NOD's, but my wife wanted a new bedroom set for the house, so that was thrown on the back burner.

Speak of NODs do you prefer using NODs or a weapon based NV platform like the PVS-14? I suppose it depends on application, but if you could only run one...

[alamo5000]

This just has me scratching my head. Not necessarily at you, Alamo, but at the argument. It's not hard to coral pigs from a helicopter (I may or may not have done it while bored...on more than one occasion), so it doesn't need that much land as long as you don't get right on top of them. I'm guessing the premium is for the cost-per-flight hour of a helicopter, to include the insurance insurance. Although if you're taking up a bunch of city slickers who don't ever shoot their guns, it's just easier to let them run and let Cletus empty his "clip" into the dirt.

It's more complicated than that. It's not 'only' about space... there is a bunch of legalese involved too. You also have to make sure that not only you, but the bullets do not leave the property you are hunting on. So if the pigs go scattering across the property line and someone shoots one anyway... that can be a big problem...so I don't really know exactly what the minimum size of property needed really is... but basically all the stars have to align for a helicopter hunt... far enough away from civilization, in a space big enough, with a land owner willing to allow it...And truth be told I don't know if hunting at night from helicopters is allowed. From the ground yes (at night)... but I don't know about the air. I think the rules are no more than 30 minutes before sun up and no more than 30 minutes after sun down but I could be wrong.

Do some google searches about helicopter hunts...It's part of some kind of land management thing to get rid of invasive species. That's the only way it's legal under federal law as sport hunting from the air is banned. Needless to say the prices for a hunt are primarily based on hiring a pilot, paying for fuel and all that, and above all, supply and demand. I don't know all the details of how it works... but I know it's usually at least $1000 per hour per person (if not more) with 2 shooters on board to go do it and some have minimum times...it's not hard to spend $10,000 in just a couple days on the helicopter thing.

There are a bunch of articles online about it. I haven't read up on it to be honest. I just have a general idea.

[gatordev]

Gator,

I have not yet run this ATPIAL-C with Nods, really the only experience I have with NOD's is using a friends with his PEQ-15. I know when I picked this up from Roy at Weapon Outfitters, he mentioned that the pointer is really bright on these. I guess I won't know for sure until I get my own NV. Which of course I had the coin put aside for the NOD's, but my wife wanted a new bedroom set for the house, so that was thrown on the back burner.

Speak of NODs do you prefer using NODs or a weapon based NV platform like the PVS-14? I suppose it depends on application, but if you could only run one...

I have ZERO experience actually being behind the gun and pulling the trigger with NVGs, so I have no opinion, but it's something I've started eying for down the road. As an outsider looking in, it seems to me that it would depend on how you'd use them. If you're establishing a position and waiting, then a weapon mount would seem to be enough, but if moving, I think I'd want to have NODs on my head and a pointer on the gun. All that said, if I could only do it once...I'd probably go with the helmet mounted setup. As an aside, that's how we have our stuff set up...NODs on our helmets and PEQs on the weapon(s) in the door.

The other relevant question I could see is one tube or two if you're wearing them. I'm used to wearing two tubes (AN/AVS-9) and would guess it would take some practice in only having one tube and trying not to fall on your face while moving over varied terrain. Of course two tubes just makes the price continue to increase, but I've read online guys buying two -14s and then combining them in a mount, which looks like it would still be cheaper than the AVS-9's contracted $10-12K price point (depending on what revision they are).

Interesting that Roy mentioned the brightness. Again, from the pictures, it looks like it comes with the filters and they seem to help. Did yours come with them?

It's more complicated than that. It's not 'only' about space... there is a bunch of legalese involved too. You also have to make sure that not only you, but the bullets do not leave the property you are hunting on. So if the pigs go scattering across the property line and someone shoots one anyway... that can be a big problem...so I don't really know exactly what the minimum size of property needed really is... but basically all the stars have to align for a helicopter hunt... far enough away from civilization, in a space big enough, with a land owner willing to allow it...And truth be told I don't know if hunting at night from helicopters is allowed. From the ground yes (at night)... but I don't know about the air. I think the rules are no more than 30 minutes before sun up and no more than 30 minutes after sun down but I could be wrong.

... but I know it's usually at least $1000 per hour per person (if not more) with 2 shooters on board to go do it and some have minimum times...it's not hard to spend $10,000 in just a couple days on the helicopter thing.

Good point...keeping rounds on the property would be important. And I don't think I'd want even try helo hunting at night. Besides it being hard to find the critters, I'd then be worried about the yahoo at the controls plowing us into the ground. Add in $1000/hour and...meh. That's more than I'd care to spend. I think if you rented a Jet Ranger, you're probably looking at around $500-600/hour wet (less if you rented a piston R-44). Add in the insurance and land permission and yeah, I can see what you're saying.

[alamo5000]

Good point...keeping rounds on the property would be important. And I don't think I'd want even try helo hunting at night. Besides it being hard to find the critters, I'd then be worried about the yahoo at the controls plowing us into the ground. Add in $1000/hour and...meh. That's more than I'd care to spend. I think if you rented a Jet Ranger, you're probably looking at around $500-600/hour wet (less if you rented a piston R-44). Add in the insurance and land permission and yeah, I can see what you're saying.

I have heard of a couple places that for night hunts they send people up in the air with thermal and/or NV... they will guide the land crews in by radio to the spot of the pigs. It sounds pretty fun... The odds of getting pig action is high. When they find the pigs... and when they radio back you go blazing in with off road vehicles...you get out and prowl up on on them and shoot them...