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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uglyduck View Post
    Any chance of reviving this idea?
    I certainly wouldn't rule it out, but the long pole in the tent is likely just getting access to a number of different units at roughly the same point in time. I don't know that anyone on the staff has really had the time or opportunity to set something like this up. I do think it will happen, but likely not before we deal with some other projects first.

    I tend to favor Schmidt & Bender because I have used their glass for other applications, but I'm still quite interested in the Nightforce NXS (particularly if the daylight illumination issue has been worked out), and while the IOR and EO are not on my list at the moment, I would certainly be interested in seeing how they perform. Same goes for the new AccuPpoint.

    It may take a few months before all of these units are available in sufficient numbers to arrange a test, but again, I do think we'll get to the point were a guide will become a reality.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    It may take a few months before all of these units are available in sufficient numbers to arrange a test,
    and by then there will be some new kind of vaporware that we're all anxiously awaiting to add to the eval...



    WWW.TACTICALYELLOWVISOR.NET

  3. #48
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    1 AND 4 PITBULL

    http://valdada.com/product/6928a7e3-...78862cd81.aspx

    TECHNICAL DATA

    MAGNIFICATION..................................... ....................................1x or 4x
    OBJECTIVE SIZE.............................................. ...........................32mm
    FIELD OF VIEW @ 100 YDS............................................... ............38 - 144 ft
    EXIT PUPIL .................................................. ...............................32 - 8mm
    EYE RELIEF .................................................. ...............................3.5 in
    DIOPTRICAL ADJUSTMENT........................................ .................... -4 TO +4 DPT.
    CLICK VALUE @ 100 yds............................................... .............0.1 MRAD (1 cm)
    RETICLE ADJUSTMENT RANGE ................................15 MRAD (54 MOA) @ 100yds
    TUBE DIAMETER.......................................... .................................35 mm
    LENGTH .................................................. .....................................7.25 in
    WEIGHT............................................ ...........................................23 oz.
    BATTERY........................................... ...........................................CR 2032
    COATINGS.............................MC-7 BROAD BAND FULLY MULTICOAT, ANTIREFLEX
    OPTICAL GLASS............................................. .........PREMIUM SCHOTT, GERMANY








    I really like the idea of the 1 and 4 IOR, although I would have to say be cautious. I have had a total of 3 IOR 1.1-4x26mm scopes and two of the three failed to hold zero, while the guys at Valdada are absolutely top rate guys, who absolutely stand behind their product and were good to deal with, we had a third unit of the same scope, my buddy's, also would not hold zero. I couldn't take the continually wandering zero and I finally replaced mine with a Leupold MK4 1.5-5x20mm and have been happy so far. YMMV

    I will be interested to hear how someone gets on with the Pitbull before I shell out and by one.

    Cameron
    Last edited by Cameron; 3 May 2009 at 21:02.

  4. #49
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    I am going with weight (the lighter the better) concerns for now. That IOR and Horus are heavy!!! My DMS is 18oz and that is too heavy for me.

    Right now, I think that the Trijicon Accupoint is the best of all worlds. Their 1-4x24 only weighs 14.4oz........now that's getting there!!! Best of all, there are no batteries to burn out.

    Now for me, if they only came out in a 1-6 power (preferably with a 35mm tube), I'd be all over it!!!

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    Sounds like what we need is a 1x-3/4/6x variable review/guide, as there appear to be more worthy contenters in this game than we originally may have thought.

    If we stick just to the premium lines (i.e. those over $500), we're still looking at more than a half-dozen possible contenders ...

    Elcan (Specter DR)
    Ellis Optics (MK-7 Omega)
    Horus (Talon)
    IOR (1x/4x Tactical)
    Leupold (Mark 4 CQ/T)
    Meopta (MeoStar R1 KDot)
    Millet (DMS)
    Nightforce (NXS)
    Schmidt & Bender (Short Dot)
    Swarovski (Z6i)
    Trijicon (TR-21/24)
    US Optics (SN4S)
    Zeiss (Victory Varipoint)

    ... no doubt I've missed a couple, too. Not all of these are "tactical" glass per accepted definitions, but even so, it is increasingly hard to see the forest for the trees.

    AC
    Leupold MK4 MRT 1.5-5?

  6. #51
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    why is the accupoint "revolutionary?" is it because it will have good day time and night time illumination? good glass? just a combination of all its features?

    what makes any of the listed optics better than another? they seem to all have similar features, but it's boiling down to day time illumination, reticle and weight?

    what makes a good intermediate range optic?

  7. #52
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    Even those those questions are valid.. some of it is perspective to the eye of the beholder.

    Any case I don't really consider the Accupoint revolutionary at this time since fiber optics has been used before in scopes.. ie ACOG (also same producers of the Accupoint)

    What's nice about the Accupoint is that the optics looks clear (at least to me with my limit experience) and the fiber optic reticle glows very visibility whether your in light or dark No batteries makes it a plus. Of course this won't replace the reflex sight like the Aimpoint, but I like it because it's magnification is adjustable on the tube.. while the Aimpoint T-1/CompM4/etc or Eotech sights require external magnification and batteries. Usage I wouldn't use this scope in CQB.. prefer my T-1 and my Eotech 553.

    Of course not being in the military or LE, my views are with very little true life experience. Just what I can observe when I train.

  8. #53
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    i noticed the trijicon the swarovski and several other of these intermediate optics have no bdc or any hash marked reticles.

    is this something just not required for an intermediate range optic?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by trinydex View Post
    why is the accupoint "revolutionary?" ...what makes a good intermediate range optic?
    I don't know if this was meant to be rhetorical or not, but I'll throw my .02 in anyway. IMO the TR-24 is an improvement over the TR-21 but not revolutionary to the world of 1-4x optics. It offers true 1x, good FOV, and shorter eye relief (than the TR-21). I think it will replace the TR-21 as Trijicons offering to the 1-4x arena. As far as the other question goes, I think only the individual can decide that based on intended use.
    -Mitch-

  10. #55
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    i'm absolutely asking everything in earnest, i keep rereading this thread because i'm trying to understand the subtleties between options when before i thought "they were all the same."

    does anyone know why s&b shortdot doesn't have a true 1x when trijicon and others do?

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by trinydex View Post
    i'm absolutely asking everything in earnest, i keep rereading this thread because i'm trying to understand the subtleties between options when before i thought "they were all the same."

    does anyone know why s&b shortdot doesn't have a true 1x when trijicon and others do?
    The minimum power setting was 1.1 due to the fact that the original flashdot was designed to be a 1.25 power - when you made it a 1 power it actually had a slight ‘ghost’ image (the inside of the tube at the objective end) when your eye got closer than normal for proper eye relief. 1.1 power made this go away with very little to no difference for up close reflex work.

    http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/short-dot/

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uglyduck View Post

    Similar to the IOR but a little lighter (3oz), red/green reticle, smaller FOV, and Horseshoe BDC as well. This is Ed of GRSC's design I beleive. The heading is a link. Oh yea, and its 1-6x.
    this scope seems perfect but then i found that thread about the eye relief

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=441239

    any thoughts on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    The minimum power setting was 1.1 due to the fact that the original flashdot was designed to be a 1.25 power - when you made it a 1 power it actually had a slight ‘ghost’ image (the inside of the tube at the objective end) when your eye got closer than normal for proper eye relief. 1.1 power made this go away with very little to no difference for up close reflex work.

    http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/short-dot/
    mmm i forgot about that, thanks. so is the shortdot 2 a ground up engineering for true 1x?

  13. #58
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    Negative. The original Zenith that the SD LE is based upon was/is also a 1.1x by design. Of course, I use a Zenith 1.5-6x42 Flash Dot (FD7) quite often, and really don't think that it's that objectionable even at 1.5x ... I suppose it really depends upon your intended applications.



    Also, although very little has been said about to this point, the German S&B catalog lists yet another interesting variation: the 1.5-6x20 Flash Dot in the PM II line.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  14. #59
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    Here's what I think we need...

    under 1lb with mount
    1 OR 4
    under 12" long
    Daylight-visible illuminated with at least a 500 hour battery life
    Eotech-style reticule with crosshairs added
    under $1k
    Last edited by rob_s; 17 May 2009 at 09:48.
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  15. #60
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    I think the Nightforce NXS could come quite close, if the daytime illumination qualities of the FC-1 were dramatically improved. I know there have been reports of an improved variant for government use, but these aren't exactly on the "obtainables" list where the general market is concerned.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

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